Installers Gone Bad

[Advent Signs]

Approx 1 month ago I hired a company to permit, install, and survey a channel letter job. Upon reaching an agreement the installer was asked for any further details and requirements the channel letter sign must have before the sign could be installed. The company responded by saying everything was in order. We decided to deliver the sign and stay until the job was installed. Everything went great until the next day when the city came and told our client the sign was illegal because it had not been inspected. The company we hired to do the install failed to get the right permit. IN return, the city told our client that they could not open until it was taken care of. Our client then decided not to pay us. We had already paid the installer and contacted them to tell them about the situation and that they were at fault. The installer said they would take the sign down and have all the appropriate permits and inspections. Weeks go by, still nothing of the sign. Then we recieve a bill for $700.00 from the installers that states they are not installing the sign until more money is recieved. By this point our client is in a fit of rage.

The main question is..

What actions can we take towards this installation company? We have written eveidence of all our conversations via email. Even after contacting the owner of the company he stated and I quote, "I don't have time to talk you now, or ever."

Anyone ever delt with this?

[Erik Sine]

That's awful.

If everything you say is true than feel free to post that company name here. We have a Nation Sign Company Forum where installers rate them, this would be the opposite side of the coin. I'm sure other sign companies would like to know who to stay away from. What kind of permit did they originally pull???? Something's not adding up right. I can imagine your client is in a fit of rage, they're losing money everyday they are not open. I would be talking to an attorney as we speak, fire your installer, hire someone else and make the original installer pay all costs and legal fees.

Did this take place in KY too?

I would never make the mistake of paying another installer until they show proof of the inspection sign off, along with pictures showing the letters with the faces off and pics behind the wall. I always make they take pics inside every letter and back behind the wall so I know their not making long runs or letting secondary wiring touching primary, or crossing flex etc etc.

I'm not sure about laws in your state or if Kentucky has contractors license's or not. I know if a contractor here in CA did not perform right I can fire him and go after his bond. As a contractor he has to make it right or there is hell to pay with the contractor license board.

[signman12]

That's awful.

If everything you say is true than feel free to post that company name here. We have a Nation Sign Company Forum where installers rate them, this would be the opposite side of the coin. I'm sure other sign companies would like to know who to stay away from. What kind of permit did they originally pull???? Something's not adding up right. I can imagine your client is in a fit of rage, they're losing money everyday they are not open. I would be talking to an attorney as we speak, fire your installer, hire someone else and make the original installer pay all costs and legal fees.

Did this take place in KY too?

I would never make the mistake of paying another installer until they show proof of the inspection sign off, along with pictures showing the letters with the faces off and pics behind the wall. I always make they take pics inside every letter and back behind the wall so I know their not making long runs or letting secondary wiring touching primary, or crossing flex etc etc.

I'm not sure about laws in your state or if Kentucky has contractors license's or not. I know if a contractor here in CA did not perform right I can fire him and go after his bond. As a contractor he has to make it right or there is hell to pay with the contractor license board.

I agree that something is missing from the equation, but if it is how you said it is, the first thing is to hire an attorney. If you paid the guy and he hasn't done what you paid him for the only way to get your money back is with a suit against him or the bond, if he has one. Most states on the East don't require them.

I don't fully agree with the "payment once finals are done" concept seing as how 90% of what we do is installations for other national companies and we group the inspections together. You should in future have a protocol for paperwork, and require certain documents before full and final payments are made. We submit photos, front and back of the wall, sign lit, copies of the permit and receipts, as well as a client sign off sheet to verify the work was done to the end users satisfaction with every project.

Going to the board that licenses' this company is definately and option, but I found here in Florida that they do little to nothing about helping.

Good luck.

[Brian]

did you not see the permit before you shipped the sign? The companies we do installs for will not even go to production until the permitting phase is completed.

[Guest signcat]

Approx 1 month ago I hired a company to permit, install, and survey a channel letter job. Upon reaching an agreement the installer was asked for any further details and requirements the channel letter sign must have before the sign could be installed. The company responded by saying everything was in order. We decided to deliver the sign and stay until the job was installed. Everything went great until the next day when the city came and told our client the sign was illegal because it had not been inspected. The company we hired to do the install failed to get the right permit. IN return, the city told our client that they could not open until it was taken care of. Our client then decided not to pay us. We had already paid the installer and contacted them to tell them about the situation and that they were at fault. The installer said they would take the sign down and have all the appropriate permits and inspections. Weeks go by, still nothing of the sign. Then we recieve a bill for $700.00 from the installers that states they are not installing the sign until more money is recieved. By this point our client is in a fit of rage.

The main question is..

What actions can we take towards this installation company? We have written eveidence of all our conversations via email. Even after contacting the owner of the company he stated and I quote, "I don't have time to talk you now, or ever."

Anyone ever delt with this?

Have your attorney write them a letter informing them to re-install the sign within a certain amount of time, and if not installed, you will then hire another firm to pick up the sign, install it and send them the bill. Make sure to courtesy copy the letter to your client.

Edited July 21, 2009 by signcat

[Phunkybones]

did you not see the permit before you shipped the sign? The companies we do installs for will not even go to production until the permitting phase is completed.

I am terrible sorry that this has happened to you but I have to agree with Chubby about not shipping till you get the permit copy in hand. Did you say that you have already paid your installer? As a Install Coordinator for a National Company I always pay 50% up front then wait to pay the balance after I have recieved the survey/photos, permit, final inspection and invoice/final photos...........This avoids all problems. Good luck!

[Advent Signs]

Have your attorney write them a letter informing them to re-install the sign within a certain amount of time, and if not installed, you will then hire another firm to pick up the sign, install it and send them the bill. Make sure to courtesy copy the letter to your client.

Signcat,

That seems like a very wise thing to do, seeing it gets legal attention without causing a suit. I will be sure to inform those who have responded how this situation turns out.

Thanks

[Advent Signs]

I am terrible sorry that this has happened to you but I have to agree with Chubby about not shipping till you get the permit copy in hand. Did you say that you have already paid your installer? As a Install Coordinator for a National Company I always pay 50% up front then wait to pay the balance after I have recieved the survey/photos, permit, final inspection and invoice/final photos...........This avoids all problems. Good luck!

The sign was installed on the wall before we paid them. The installer received payment after the job was finsihed, however they got a permit, but it was not the right permit. We built the sign in KY and personally delivered it to Michigan. The installer should have known which permit to get, afterall it is their home city. Their shop was litterally 2 mins away from the jobsite.

[Guest signcat]

Signcat,

That seems like a very wise thing to do, seeing it gets legal attention without causing a suit. I will be sure to inform those who have responded how this situation turns out.

Thanks

Your Welcome!

[Brian]

The sign was installed on the wall before we paid them. The installer received payment after the job was finsihed, however they got a permit, but it was not the right permit. We built the sign in KY and personally delivered it to Michigan. The installer should have known which permit to get, afterall it is their home city. Their shop was litterally 2 mins away from the jobsite.

Yea but did you see a copy of the permit? What was the difference between the permit he got and the right one?

[Phunkybones]

Yea but did you see a copy of the permit? What was the difference between the permit he got and the right one?

Any updates on this problem????????? I would like to know what permit he pulled that was wrong.

[geraldi]

Sounds like they got the sign permit but didn't get the electrical permit. Here in KY we have a city, (Georgetown) that requires both sign and elec. permits. With the elec. permit you have to have the inspector to meet you at the job site and he looks at the sign to insure it is UL or otherwise listed. He also check to make sure it is built to code and then he puts a sticker on it. Then you install it. If you install it first, it has to come off the wall to be inspected. NO, he won't go 10 ft in the air on a ladder or bucket. ASK ME HOW I KNOW THIS!