LED question

[fishing nut]

I am confused a little and curious on how the T bar retrofit of LED for a typical fixture will pay for it'self in a year. I looked at them on line and it is ballpark 150 - 200 for a fixture. Just looking at my office I have 4 fixtures and that would be say 700$ (175 per fixture) to retrofit my fixtures in my office alone. Our electrician changes the lamps every 2 years and that is 8 bulbs at say 5$ each so 40$ for it all. I am pretty sure that My office will not consume even close to the cost of the replacement, Maybe the cost of the replacement lamps though but 2 years out of them is pretty cost effective..

Is the costs I saw on the websites for ballast(s), Led and installation?

Another question is the statement about the hospital spending 3 million on retrofitting. How long will that take to recoup the costs vs. how much is spent yearly on juice. If they are able to save that much in a year I know where our insurance $ is going and someone ought to relook at how the lighting is set up. JMHO

[manuellynch]

I am confused a little and curious on how the T bar retrofit of LED for a typical fixture will pay for it'self in a year. I looked at them on line and it is ballpark 150 - 200 for a fixture. Just looking at my office I have 4 fixtures and that would be say 700$ (175 per fixture) to retrofit my fixtures in my office alone. Our electrician changes the lamps every 2 years and that is 8 bulbs at say 5$ each so 40$ for it all. I am pretty sure that My office will not consume even close to the cost of the replacement, Maybe the cost of the replacement lamps though but 2 years out of them is pretty cost effective..

Is the costs I saw on the websites for ballast(s), Led and installation?

Another question is the statement about the hospital spending 3 million on retrofitting. How long will that take to recoup the costs vs. how much is spent yearly on juice. If they are able to save that much in a year I know where our insurance $ is going and someone ought to relook at how the lighting is set up. JMHO

The Return on Investment calculation is based on LEDs, Drivers, and estimated cost for retrofitting the fixture (labor cost). We are finding that the applications that have the best return on investment are applications where the light is on 18 or more hours a day. Hospitals, colleges, and manufacturing facilities seem to be the best applications so far. Best ROI results are in CA, Hawaii, and Alaska...but some favorable results in MN, PA, and NY due to rebates and tax deductions that are available.

The primary reason people are retrofitting are;

1. Reduce energy (keep in mind that Calif energy rates are as high as $0.21 kwh)

2. Reduce maintenance (extreme staff cuts have put higher workload on staff maintenance - we hear a lot of complaints.

3. and then...whether we like it or not...the "green factor"

I will ask Al Dixon and Nate/Shooter to chime in...would probably be best to hear their stories.

[adixon]

Hi Folks,

Here's what we have found in regard to the ROI on converting to the LED kits for one customer...

We took a look at a lunch room area for a local company. The lights are on nearly 24hrs a day every day because they run shifts around the clock. They had 4 lamps with two ballasts in several fixtures. We determined that each fixture was using 192 watts configured as they were.

The worst part is that the counter and sink area used for cleanup was still dark! We measured only 36 foot-candles directly below the fixtures and slightly less at the half way point in between fixtures.

We removed the two ballasts and four lamps in each fixture replacing them with a power supply and two lines of LED modules per fixture. Total power consumption is now 48 watts per fixture. But guess what...the light output now measures 60 foot-candles directly below the fixture and slightly less in between.

Our regional power company is offering a program to help companies, municipalities, and non-profits save energy and money. They will pay 65 cents per watt for every watt they reduce their use. In the above case that means that for every fixture that was retro-fit the electric company would pay $91.00!(Yes I know the math doesn't work...192-48=144, 144x.65=93.60 but the worksheet the electric company requires us to use to figure the incentive rounds the wattage saved to 140, so 140x.65=91).

OK so we have already recovered $91.00 per fixture to make the change. At $.096 Kwr for electric the conversion will save approximately $120.00 per year. This produces a ROI in less than a year and we didn't consider cost of materials for re-lamping, disposal cost of the spent lamps and ballasts, or labor.

The rated life of the LED kits is 100,000 hours. This brought a comment from the maintenance foreman,"Hey I'll be retired before we have to replace these!" Another comment he made, "You wouldn't believe the amount of time we spend on a ladder changing lights".

In an office area they had decided to "save" electric by removing a couple of lamps from each fixture. BUT they left both ballasts installed. So one ballasts was burning and producing NO light! We measured 41.7 foot-candles on the desktop under a fixture.

After the conversion the fixture uses 48 watts and produces 66 foot-candles at the desktop. The person using that desk also says the it is more comfortable working there with the better lighting. The difference in ft-candles between the two areas is due to the different lens and reflectors installed on the fixtures.

Several studies are available that show a correlation to proper lighting and worker productivity. This is part of the ROI for a conversion project that may be hard to put a dollar value on but it is there.

Also the (and I'm going to mention the brand) AoturoaLED retro-fit kits run cool. They produce less heat than the fluorescent lamps/ballasts they typically replace. So part of the ROI (and this is included in the electric company's worksheet) is the reduced cooling costs. It is important to note that not just any LED will give you the performance we are describing. I believe that this was proven in a study published in this forum.

This is just one example.

Regards,

Al

I am confused a little and curious on how the T bar retrofit of LED for a typical fixture will pay for it'self in a year. I looked at them on line and it is ballpark 150 - 200 for a fixture. Just looking at my office I have 4 fixtures and that would be say 700$ (175 per fixture) to retrofit my fixtures in my office alone. Our electrician changes the lamps every 2 years and that is 8 bulbs at say 5$ each so 40$ for it all. I am pretty sure that My office will not consume even close to the cost of the replacement, Maybe the cost of the replacement lamps though but 2 years out of them is pretty cost effective..

Is the costs I saw on the websites for ballast(s), Led and installation?

Another question is the statement about the hospital spending 3 million on retrofitting. How long will that take to recoup the costs vs. how much is spent yearly on juice. If they are able to save that much in a year I know where our insurance $ is going and someone ought to relook at how the lighting is set up. JMHO

The Return on Investment calculation is based on LEDs, Drivers, and estimated cost for retrofitting the fixture (labor cost). We are finding that the applications that have the best return on investment are applications where the light is on 18 or more hours a day. Hospitals, colleges, and manufacturing facilities seem to be the best applications so far. Best ROI results are in CA, Hawaii, and Alaska...but some favorable results in MN, PA, and NY due to rebates and tax deductions that are available.

The primary reason people are retrofitting are;

1. Reduce energy (keep in mind that Calif energy rates are as high as $0.21 kwh)

2. Reduce maintenance (extreme staff cuts have put higher workload on staff maintenance - we hear a lot of complaints.

3. and then...whether we like it or not...the "green factor"

I will ask Al Dixon and Nate/Shooter to chime in...would probably be best to hear their stories.