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Being in the electric sign industry where government has a hand in everything we do and most of the time they circumcise (yes that word) our right to prosper and happiness.

Here are two issues that make me nervous, and maybe everybody should be nervous too because I think when it comes to these issues with the make up composition of who's in these sign associations and the past omissions to act, or the positions they held/supported that would further regulate the industry we love and prevent us from continuing the work we love or make it a higher cost to us as well as the end users or consumers.

I think title 24 is the biggest fraud and waste of time, it only drives up cost. We cannot keep conserving energy and keep rebuilding our electric components and appliances over and over again, try building another power plant or two instead. Everyone wants to come to California, DUH!

I also agree with the firm stance of contractors license laws and agree with the moderate amount of regulation that they enforce for public safety and as well as protection of contractors as well as the consumer..

The first part
http://www.signs.org/Newsroom/IndustryNews/IndustryNewsItem.aspx?NewsID=3042

One thing I've always said, what happens in the environmental whacko state of California which is the ground zero for the "Environmental Product & Safety" movement which starts here and creeps it's way east and beyond....you would figure most states and countries who don't want to bankrupt themselves and drive out large to small business's like this grand state has themselves would choose to ignore our government handling.

Since the news just came out recently that Canada has exceeded in the middle class beyond our country because of lower taxes that they would continue to do what our country used to do before 15 years ago. So why follow standards California has created?

To mix it in, International Sign Association is involved. That makes me nervous because they have hardly been on the right side of anything when it comes to energy and light source issues.


Part II
http://www.signs.org/Newsroom/IndustryNews/IndustryNewsItem.aspx?NewsID=3035

Like I said, I believe in moderate regulation not license stacked on top of license. I like our western states stance on contractors license laws. The fact that only a "licensed contractor can sub-contract". Not allowing an unlicensed contractor to sub-contract a license contractor.

It's a headache, for the licensed contractor who has gone through all the proper channels who knows the trade, the codes, and the industry. It's a Headache for the consumer to allow a third party into the contract, someone who obviously does not know the industry (otherwise they would be licensed) which can only have a higher allowance for "screw up" which can result in the consumer getting screwed because they did not pay enough for the sign which can lead to delays or a improper/unsafe sign, the contractor from getting unpaid because the contract price was not high enough, or in causing issues where the licensed contractor is used as a "line of credit". The line of Credit is one of the biggest issues of our time.

Instead of taking a position in helping what hurts our industry, and I'm talking about all these "Facility" companies who get involved in sign and lighting business who abuse our industry with illegal contracts which are not paid according to state guidelines and contractors licensing laws of 30 days, The International Sign Association should be leading the charge even against it's own membership composition and speaking out about National Sign & Service Companies abiding by the law and paying their subs...NO EXCUSES and start booting out the ones that do.

These Illegal unlicensed companies who execute products and services in "subcontracting", The International Sign Association is now supporting this. Why? Maybe because their membership with unlicensed vinyl sticky companies is bigger and they think their "doing good" and leading the charge. Or, they just don't know better, hard to believe it's the latter but it wouldn't surprise me if it's the latter.

Those are my light thoughts on this Throw Back Thursday

Like I've said in the past, sometimes our leadership at times should just "do nothing"



Maybe I'm wrong on these issues but it's hard to avoid what has happened and when nothing changes, well? I like the Governor of WI, but sometimes the best intentions of advisers can come back to haunt us down the road.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Way to go ISA & Wisconsin...A race to the bottom...

Edited by alltex
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Erik;

You have just outlined a policy juxtaposition of major proportion.

On one hand we have Title 24, which I agree is a major fraud and does indeed drive up cost on many projects. I work on "ground ups" in the Petroleum industry and can write a book on the horror stories it presents in many cases. But, it is law here in California and it must be adhered to, no matter the pain. The government gone wild........

On the other hand, we have a state like Wisconsin that has now said that licensed companies and technicians are no longer useful in making sure that a sign is installed in a workmanlike and professional manner. "License, we don't need no stinking license" Apparently crane operation, footings and electrical systems is knowledge that is gained by osmosis and should never be questioned or challenged. The ISA lackey even went further in saying that this whole matter will insure the vibrancy of the sign industry in Wisconsin. I wonder how that it is the case that no check or balance on those folks installing signs will insure the vibrancy of the industry. This is tantamount to saying that burglary laws are preventing the myriad of criminals from making a living by invading your home. Or even better, drunk driving laws are preventing drunks from getting behind the wheel of a moving vehicle. Incredible. The private sector gone equally wild.............

I wonder if the nut less, gut less representative from this suspect organization would have the Huevos to respond on his venue and explain to us worthless, licensed contractors how it is beneficial to have a flock of unlicensed Hacks roaming on scene? Come on ISA, grow some and explain this to all of us. I wonder also how any contractors who bothered to gain the knowledge necessary to install and who had the determination to get a license feels about getting his or her derriere getting slammed by the organization they belong to. How could you belong to an organization that has leaders who work against the better interest of its members. I guess it is the Forrest Gump syndrome revisited, "Oh, Okay" or "Stupid is as Stupid does"............

Or it could be that we are not interpreting this legislation properly and you Erik, have misrepresented the facts here on this board. Or maybe we have just misinterpreted the facts as they have been presented. Either way, I would be curious to hear from the ISA on this subject. I won't hold my breath though. Hopefully they will grow some and prove me wrong.

But be that as it may, I always have maintained that we are driven by the far left or the far right and we have to live in the common sense middle, both as contractors and citizens. So I would say be careful what you wish for when navigating either extreme and placing people in positions in power positions because you may just get what you wish for.

But just like the Pillsbury Doughboy thread, it is apparently a done deal and it is over but the crying.

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"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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    • By Erik Sine
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      "...We're not afraid to get into the trenches when it comes to road blocks....As a matter of fact, that's how we get things done..." - Lori Anderson
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      Number two can be the fact the fact that ISA has tried to diminish the reason for having or obtaining a contractors license in states like Texas and just recently in Wisconsin. What's the incentive to even go legit and abide by the state safety standards and laws,m if anyone can just go around and subcontract a job that normally requires a license? A clerk from Home Depot soon will be able to subcontract a pole sign or plumbing jobs to whoever, and however. Is there and start and end?
      Just because membership monies may way more in favor of vinyl and t-shirt print shops whom just entered the industry, doesn't mean ISA should take the side to think that our "trade"...i did say "trade"... is no longer a trade and anyone with no experience should just be able to cut in line, take a short cut and decide one day, "Oh...I feel like I should start selling and installing large electric sign structures"
      I thought the idea of starting or having an association for a trade was to preserve it's heritage and traditions to keep it as a trade where you earn your way in and up, not buy your way in. Educate it from time to time.
      Where is the seminars in education for book balancing for payments to distributors and subcontractors? Abiding by the law? Making sure that what ever contracts your executing in states you're even licensed to do so, and abiding by those licensing laws?
      I've seen a "report" unlicensed activity programs from time to time and announcements. But what about reporting National Sign, and or National Service providers whom don't even have a contractors license in that state that their providing service in and on the backs of licensed contractors in that state? Their breaking the law, and their breaking the chain of accountability when it comes to contractors license laws, where the consumer suffers. The consumer needs to be protected, and so does the subcontractor who is illegally being subcontracted out by an illegal primary contractor who doesn't even have a license in that state nor understand it's laws.
      Number #2 should be Preserving our "trade" and continue to uphold that high standard that requires an individual to go through the proper channels, and NOT continuing to to bastardize it by turning it into a commodity

      But hey, ISA has a golf game at their expo this year....again. Wonder if they can do a buddy team thing this year and pair up a payer, along with the payees. Some pairs would love each other depending on who, some......just might be choking the other on out on the green.
      My Tuesday thoughts.
    • By Erik Sine
      I don't know what it is about our very own International Sign Association but they continually get it wrong when it comes to anything electric either in our very own electric sign industry or even when it comes to generally lighting.

      ISA just posted this Forbes article on their Facebook page with an added

      "Have you noticed that city skylines look a little different at night?





      I am noticing....
      I'm noticing your continual lack of understanding and being able to decipher someones marketing points and doctored images to sell a products which lies about return on investment. Why does ISA have such a hard-on for anything LEDs or renewable energy? They seem to always orgasm on marketing done by others but don''t themselves have the clear ability to know when to pullout and get a grip on what's fiction and what's not. Their not interested in anything conventional.

      This all comes down to like I've been saying for years now and I'm proven right time and time again and this just emphasizes my point. When it comes to the International Sign Associations core group of the employed, the individuals who run the non-profit as a business they have no real background in our electric sign industry, or lighting background. Instead all we are left with as our leadership are individuals who only know how to run a business but not a trade. You have individuals from other areas, and they themselves might not even have real "know how" of that area in which they came. We have individuals that came from the plastics industry, the LED industry, maybe even someone from the lift-gate sales industry. We just had one come from the plastics industry, here into the sign industry then off into the pool and spa industry????? Just because you served in the plastics industry in the employment of a non-profit association doesn't mean you are validated about truly having knowledge about the plastic industry beyond being able to recite marketing points that were handed down to you.

      Which leads us to our trade.

      It's not good for our leadership to be composed of individuals who have no clear understating of what it is we do since they are not one of "us", nor understand how we survive and how we serve our customers. Instead the International Sign Association want to dictate to us, and enable government to pick winners where us the losers, pay out. I find it troubling in the areas in which they choose to support, or which area they choose to omit .

      So, back to the Forbes article obligation piece.
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/uciliawang/2014/09/10/bright-lights-big-profits/

      This one line is a killer guaranteed to get a chuckle out of you. Keep in mind of Forbes audience and target, it's just the general public and investors. But the new marketing fear to switch over to LEDs is not that they can feed starving Cambodian Children or help out in world peace, but this time it's that LEDs help prevent "Breast Cancer".

      Careful! Don't spit your coffee on your keyboard, but yes you did read that right!

      So let's cut through all the Forbes article BS on return on investment and saving women from breast cancer and get to the meat of it.


      Let's look at the cool slider option.


      Before After 1 - As they want you to see it. How ISA wants to paint in your head.


      Looks good to to the average reader who has never even picked up or measured light right?


      Let's no look at it in the realm of reality.

      Before After 2 - As you should understand.



      I've circled some areas that are not affected by the public LED lighting, and what photographic filter are doing, or changes in the camera are not the same showing favorable lighting. Shadows and areas that were once lit up are now shadows and darkened.

      Overcast skies always cause glare of light again showing favorable lighting for the after shot which has no overcast skies


      Before After 3 - As they want you to see it. How ISA wants to paint in your head.


      Again, the wow factor. Let's spend 4 times more to get less in return.


      Before After 4 - As you should understand.


      Now, let's rip off the cover from our eyes and really take a look at what we really are being shown. Usually a good place marker for these before and after pics that I've debunked over and over in the past is to look at background signs. Cleverly the pole sign in the before pic is cropped out. But we can see that the pole sign to the far right down the street is over exposed showing favorable light for the "after".

      Also, another dead ringer that this is a over exposed after shot is the fact that the store to the left. Their window sign illumination is now splashed on the street whereas in the high sodium pressure lights is not present.


      In closing, I'm in so cal so I'm very aware of the fact that all out old merc vapor lighting which worked wonderfully in the past before they got switched to HPS lights was so they don't interfere with the observatories. I don't believe in the HPS lighting because of the problems it causes with crime and the fact that their to low in light output and change colors but merc vapor lighting would be so much more brighter and cost a lot less. As a taxpayer, I am very upset and we here in California wonder why all the business's leave our state with no incentive to stay.

      Well, another one where the International Sign Association falls short in an area in which they consciously choose to support instead of telling all like it is, in truth.
      LEDs are great in some areas and not so great in others. I myself like to use them when the application calls out for it, but the International Sign Association has no understanding of the when, the why, and nor do they care.
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