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Exaggerated LED Spacing

Erik Sine

By Erik Sine
in General Message Board

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Erik Sine Master Engineer

Erik Sine

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Thought I'd pop this out early before we start doing our own Sign Syndicate LED Light Spacing Study that we will be posting here on the SS, which will probably start early next year and before the ISA Expo.

 

Before we do so, thought I would ask how many may have been duped by a Manufacturer or Distr Rep that said you could light up a sign with amazing spacing well beyond anything you have ever used, all to find out once you did the spacing they specified and sold you on, you had to end up reconfiguring the sign and double to tripling what you originally used?

 

So far in the last year or two I've heard the similar story from the project planners more than a few times.

 

For example, a 1.2 watt 3-diode LED module 1.5 modules per foot that you can use a single row to light up 24" of can or channel at 8"+ Deep, or rows 18" apart for multiple rows.  When it comes to 5" depth one row for a 16" can or cabinet or 8" spacing between multiple rows.?

 

There seems to be this word being coined around by MFG or DIST reps, even Sign Specifier Consultants who claim to be independent and are supposed to be experts, but actually behind the scenes work for certain LED manufacturers...these are the secret reps who just work as consultants but do nothing more than market certain companies and collect a check, their NOT really consultants more than they are salesmen.  The coined word is "usable light".

 

What is usable light?

 

When it comes to Sign component sales it means selling a product at max margin for minimum results. 

 

The minimum results means a configuring a sign face light to the stressed point of even light before you start to see the light source before spacing is too far apart to create hot spotting or shadows of inefficient light.

 

Sign that are illuminated with usable light CANNOT compete in shopping centers where they compete with other signs for attention.  But these usable light signs look awesome in a dark warehouse or Sign Convention floor.

 

The other problem with usable is, after a couple thousand hours of operation and lumen maintenance takes place the original illumination is now lower, so now the LEDs stand out thru the face because of the shadowing or light loss between LED modules or rows.  Now, that usable light has expired.

 

Anyhow a hew illustrations below of pics posted in a MFGs webpage that do not display how their LEDs are marketed

 

SIGN CABINET

Hanley 4 Diode Cab.jpg

 

ACCORDING TO MAX SPEC

Hanley 4 Diode Cab 2.jpg

 

I just simply put this cabinet to scale using the 2" Led Modules.  The 9" Spacing in the middle shows you what any shop would use for spacing for a 12" deep cabinet.  To the left I eliminated a row to show you what 18" on center between rows is, and where they claim it should be.  18" is typical for HO Fluorescent lamps which light output is well beyond LED modules, is 360˙ and will use the walls of the sign and face to bounce light all around for VERY even lighting.  Just imagine to yourself visually eliminating all those rows using the second pic and think of the light there would be for that sign face.  Is that how you would light the face for your customer?  Where would that light be in say 2 years, 5 years?

 

CHANNEL LETTERS

Hanley 4 Diod Channel.jpg

 

Same question here.  4 Diode 1.8w LED Module same as above.  MFG claims one row should light up 24", as you can tell they used multiple rows, as you should to light up an approx 16" Channel. 

 

Again, if you're going to claim amazing spacing, why not show it, why show near conventional spacing as illustrated above?

 

Which all leads to my next question. 

 

When you're told you can get a bag of 50 modules for 32' of lighting for $$$$, or 100 modules that light up 64' are you actually get what your paying for?  Or are you having to tighten the spacing?

 

Most spacing numbers with all these new fancy cute LED "prism" Lenses that claim to be 170˙ or 180˙ which come with a cool chart and graph that most will scratch their head to but it does look scientific, don't seem to be adding up. 

 

Don't get me wrong the spacing can work with this "usable light" theory, but how many of us configure and build signs for "usable light".  In most cases we build to compete, and of course last.  I've been hearing too many stories of consumer complaints and shops having to go back out and redo the signs adding more LEDs.

 

The MFG & DISTR model is gearing up to tell you can you can save money by buying their product because you get sooooo much more footage out of it.  The problem lays in the fact that if you put them side by side with a near product that does their spacing differently ( much tighter) you'll see the tighter product is much brighter (duh) and of course over time, it won't hot spot and shaodw as fast because the spacing is MUCH tighter and it won't display as it would for further spaced products

 

Knowing the light output of LEDs, that is now how I would specify or configure LED spacing of modules or rows of modules, they need to be MUCH tighter and smaller.  That's just me, and my opinion based on most applications in our industry, and I do know not every signs needs to be blinding light, but consumers want visibility in most cases, where subtle takes a back seat....in most cases

 

Anyhow, just my 2¢

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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