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Im not on here to attack anyone. I don't see why you're so angry that I prefer LED. I'm not here to attack your old age or call you an old dog. Or sit here and write to defend myself from some sign guy in Indiana. I know Indiana is the new hub for sign innovation & products so I can't compete with that. It doesn't matter to me who you are or what you think, cause your in INDIANA a state where I don't want to be in. What matters to me is voicing my opinion. I'm not here to write something that pleases you. You're right I am 29. A 29 year old that isn't going to change anything in the sign industry & I don't care! & FOR THE FACT NEITHER ARE YOU. WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT NEON IS OUTDATED & MOST WOULD PREFER TO INSTALL LED, WETHER THEY VOICE IT OR NOT. IT'S REALITY, FACE IT OLD TIMER,

LOL!! UNEDUCATED HACKS HUH!! That's the "real" problem with neon. LMFAO!! (Again this is not an attack towards neon or how great it looks. This is my own personal preference & opinion. Which is right!!) That's not the problem with neon. The problem is the amount of time it takes to manufacture & the amount of time it takes to install. Neon Patterns, blowing glass, burning in vs a box of LED ready to use out the box The problem is the amount of amps it draws per transformer. At least six times more than a LED power supply. The problem is the 30 lbs transformers, you have to mount & carry up behind the wall. Take this example. If two sign shops of the same caliber were to manufacture & install a sign. Except one had to do it with neon & one with LED. I'm sure the LED manufacturer will be done faster. In a race with equally qualified installers, the one installing LED will be done in half the time anyday of the week. Doesn't matter how you manufacture the neon or how qualified the installers are. If they are of the same caliber, LED installs faster. LED or neon are both going to last, with minimal to no maintenance. Doing things the NEON way, to me seems like a pain but i'm sure i'm not alone here. Faster means you can move on to the next one and make more income in the long run. I live in So Cal. I can't survive off doing one or two jobs a week. I need to be faster & LED helps with that. There's a cost for sunny days & having an actor for a governator (lol). It's expensive to live here, so we have to be faster & cheaper than the next guy to make decent money. PLUS and this is key, after completion of a sign I get payed like i'm sure most of us do. With NEON there can always be an accident, no matter what level of installer you are (hack or not). Accidents happen & the sign may not be completed which means you don't get paid. With LED I always finish & eliminate those accidents completely. Not only that I've spent way too many nights & weekends installing signs with neon. If LED was around then I coulda made alot more happy hours!

For those Americans on this board - we are all proud to be Americans - if that is the case why dont we respect the US Government office that protects things that legally ties things that you invent to be your technology? Will we selectively decide when we want to be American - if we can get a "cheaper" illegal product? As for that comment ... get real! You've never shopped at Wal-Mart. They sell products with technology infringements all day every day (PROSCAN tv's). Are hard working americans not american enough cause they have to shop there. Wal-Mart puts small main street buisness out all the time. Have you ever bought coffee at Starbucks, they used to practice un-lawful tactics to put their competitors out of business. The're an AMERICAN business, a successful one most would say. Just cause I shop at Wal-Mart doesn't mean I don't support small business, heck I am a small business. When they start offering signs at low cost prices I'm gonna be S.O.L. or hopefully retired and living prosperously. I've bought coffee here and there at a starbucks anytime I feel like shelling out 5 dollars for caffeine water. This "America / Real American" isn't fair. I don't believe your more or less american than i am cause of where I buy LED's or which I choose to use. I feel bad if someone steals your hard work, if you made a design & someone stole it & is profiting from it. That's not right and no one should do it! We're all americans trying to get the best deal we can at the best price we can. It's in our nature to be thrifty. Those that don't have to won't ever understand.

It's all in good fun. I know this is only opinion & that's why I enjoy this website so much. But I don't think it's sad to see shops changing out to only LED. Times are changing. I only know a handful of shops in my area that offer in house neon services. There are plenty of people saying they can fix neon but they get they're neon from those other shops. TO ME Neon is a pain! Every single sign installer I know would rather install a LED sign over a neon sign anyday of the week ESPECIALLY ME! I remember when we started using double back neon & we stopped using PK's. We would never go back to installing PK's just for fun or nostalgia same thing with neon. This is why neon is a PAIN: You have to drill two 1 1/8" holes sometimes in concrete tilt up walls (sure you still have to drill a hole with led but it's usually no bigger than 1/2" & only one per letter. No more bloody knuckles tying in glass in narrow letters. No more calls to the office explaining how you broke a neon unit bringing it up the ladder or tying it in. No more crawling into the soffit to make your jumps to the next letter. No need to pre-wire half your set. No need for 1/2" flexible conduit. No more carrying 30 lbs transformers up soffits. God the more I talk about it, reminds me of the good old days (woulda been better with LED, those days were hot in sunny so cal). You cut your installation time by half. Also you cut your go-backs to replace broken units by 100%. The installers keep red & white leds in the truck in case something doesn't light up when they test it before they leave. Any installer knows the positives of installing LED to neon. Neon looks great... always will. I love Vegas I love old americana signs, but the truth in my shop is that neon is a specialty item. Sure we can get it & install it but I could focus my energy in other products & other services & save myself the neon headache. As far as brightness goes, that's not an issue with me wanting to provide it or not provide it. It comes down to educating a customer, I can push a product to my customers all I want, but it comes down to cost & the question 75% of my customers ask me..... "you're the sign guy, what would you use?" I use JT led. It's bright enough it get's your point accross & it's cost efficient. I can't afford to drive a BMW I drive a Toyota but it gets me from A to B just as well & it's dependable. Just not as flashy.

I use JT probably for 90% of my signs (the other 10% I use whatever the specs in sign programs call out for), been using the product for about 2-3 years, back then I was getting them directly from a sales rep close to my area. Now I get them from N. Glantz & have not had any problems that would make me stop or use a different product. I don't know why this is sad. I've been in the sign industry for over 12 years, back when we used to use an overhead projector on a wall to make our patterns and making our install patterns by laying out the completed sheet metal letters on the ground. I never really mastered the art of blowing glass, I could fix units if need be. But as of 1 1/2 years ago I made the decision that I would no longer service or install neon. It was a pain in the butt to install & it's a pain in the butt to service. I get calls here and there to fix a blinking unit or not lighting unit & I usually end up selling them on changing out their glass to new LED & new acrylic faces & I throw in a warranty, if they choose not to I recommend them to one of my buddies out here who is more than willing to service neon still. Maybe I missed something, why is using this product sad? Do we not want to be competitive? Don't fortune 500 companies use products that are less costly & in exchange offer more competitive prices? I may be mis-informed here about what exactly is wrong with this product. But I just had one of the best years in the signs business in 09, I think I owe that to the cost & dependability of JT led. -C

Hi Erik, My name is Carlos. You guys can call me "los". I joined a couple of months ago & I didn't frequent this site much but now since getting these weekly updates I frequent this site more often & find that there are very interesting posts & subjects. I'm out here in the IE for those not familiar with that term it's the Inland Empire. It's hot, it's growing & it's fun. I'm a full service sign guy. I've been in the sign industry since I was 18 and I'm going on almost 10 years of experience. The sign Business has been great to me, I've met great people & not so great people, I've learn to work with my hands & a trade that will never go out of business & I've traveled to great & awful locations to install signs, most recently I was in Hawaii helping on an install job (It was a Great Time!). I can manufacture too, but with so many great wholesale firms out there I find that there really is no need for me to manufacture any form of illuminated letters. I do manufacture non-illuminated letters, faces, monuments & small pylons. Although I don't have the capacity to manufacture anything BIG. If I happen to sell a big job I usually just sub-contract it to a local sign company in my area. I am familiar with most of the sign companies in my area being that I've worked for them at some point or helped them by either installing for them, or designing for them. Did I mention I'm pretty handy on a computer as well. Well, if I could be of any help to anyone please don't hesitate to ask. Thanks for welcoming me into this forum I hope to take something positive from this as well as help contribute to other memebers if possible. Thanks,