Rocco

I've been looking for such a truck myself but am probably going in a slightly different direction. On the equipment trader website they have a bunch (of varying priced and vintages) under "Aerial Platform Lift Trucks".

a quick web search came up with https://www.watergallery.net/wall-fountains/ And they showed what looks to be your exact unit.

Side jobs have always been a fact of life in the sign game (not saying I approve) and it was a big issue back when my father was around and in charge. I don't allow any for profit side jobs since I "took over the payments". If they need a banner for the local cub pack, etc. I'll probably even do the layout. However, if it's a paying sign job, it goes to the company. If the company doesn't make money, they will be out of a job.

For eifs I usually use the extra wide gorilla tape. It's about $15/roll around here but worth every cent. For those times that even what won't stick, a friend showed me a neat technique (Thanks Ken). Run a line of duct tape (cheap stuff ok) around the perimeter of the pattern. Then use a staple gun and attach the pattern to the wall with staples, making sure to land them on the tape. The tape strengthens the pattern and also makes removing the staples almost effortless. Of course there are always a few staples that want to stay in their new home so use SS staples. I find one of those reverse handled staplers work better for me, though I've always thought of using a hammer stapler like they use to put up tyvek house wrap. When I do just go with tape I tap the tape onto the wall (eifs or masonry) with the tape roll to get it to stick in the nooks and crannies better. My friend uses a rubber mallet. For masonry, if I have a really hard time, I put a few tapcons into the pattern (again through tape), making sure to be inside the letters. Occasionally we have trouble with painted walls and screw those patterns up as well. I know of one local company that often spray glues patterns onto that corrugated rolled cardboard and attach the pattern to the wall with anchors. That way their signs go up rain or shine. I'm not that hardcore.

Just as a sanity check - having a lockable disconnect switch that is NOT in sight of the sign is still acceptable, correct? I have one town (using 2014 NEC as their rulebook) that keeps asking for a switch in sight of the sign. That's not always possible (or at least the customers/LL's don't like to see switches) and why that we use lockable switches. If I've been doing it wrong yell at me, but I thought I was correct. Even the 2017 NEC should allow lockable switches that are not in sight of the sign, right? That's how I read it but my brain is old and tired. Thanks all!

Thanks but my customer told me that they already got someone. I'll still pass along your info though.

A customer of mine called me earlier asking if I'd go to Boston to do some work. I'm too busy, and much too far away, plus don't have any MA licensing. TBH, we didn't get into details but all of their other work has been electrical signs in malls. PM me if you work in Boston and I'll pass along the contact info. Thanks!

If you need enough to make it worth the travel time, Joseph Fazzio in Glassboro has it listed in both perforated (round holes) and expanded (diamond shape holes). Even Grainger has it listed (both ways) on their site but IDK about their pricing compared to others.

My daughter had an appointment and had to go to a regional office.. She texted this photo. I guess they bought the letters online but didn't spend the $ for a pattern. Or pins or good tape or a tape measure or level or... And this isn't some tiny doctors office in the middle of nowhere. CH probably has half a billion bucks in buildings alone. SIGH.

OMG, gerber font cards. That brings me back. I actually still have a 4B that runs though it's not aligned properly and lives under a table. A couple of years ago, a belt broke (only the 2nd or 3rd thing in a zillion years) and I just couldn't line it up right. If I had a swivel blade for it I could still cut vinyl with the beastie. I've moved on to a larger plotter so that belt breaking was a happy accident. It forced me to move into the 21st century. Though if you ask my kids I'm still stuck in the 1800's. I admit to never being a great artist though I always start with pencil/paper. I'll probably never win any design prizes but can at least do a rough draft with a customer.

I'm going to avoid the comments above but throw in my two cents (which may be all my post is worth but..). Way back in the dark ages when signs were still hand painted, a company called Gerber Scientific came out with the first good vinyl plotter. And yes, there may have been others, but this was the first one that (at least in my area) saw large sales. The local sign writers bemoaned the fact that now any "monkey with two fingers" (a phrase I heard more than once) could now lay out and make signs. Other phrases like "its ruining the industry", "taking away jobs", etc. flew about. I wonder if the first mass produced brushes got the same kind of comments? We used to make wholesale channel letters (all by hand) and after I saw the Gerber 4-B at other shops, I tricked (long story) my father into buying one. it cost $10K (in 1982 dollars) when that was a tidy sum. it came with a whopping seven fonts. It saved us a lot of time, allowed us to stop hand cutting/reverse spraying faces, making letter patterns, etc. I was just learning to hand letter at the time, but that was left on the wayside. I still wish I had fully learned to hand letter but i digress. Anyway, channel letter benders are just another tool. In the hands of an experienced shop they can really be a money maker. Digital printers are another similar item. If you know how to use them (and market that service) you can make a lot of dough. In the 21st century channel letters, digital prints, aluminum extrusions, etc. are all commodities. You can buy an assemble-it / install-it yourself set of channel letters on-line from at least one source. I wonder when Amazon or Walmart will start carrying channel letters, cabinet signs, etc. Now, anyone with deep enough pockets can gain entry to the sign business, be it with electric signs, vinyl graphics, 3d carved signs, etc. by buying the right equipment AND hiring the right people. TBH, isn't that the new business model in these times. If you have enough $, you can get into most any business. Put together a business plan, get a loan, assemble a team, rent appropriate space, buy "stuff" and run with it. It will never be as easy as the franchise salespeople would make you believe, but people will try and some will succeed. Now I'm putting on my helmet, body armor and hunkering down in my foxhole and try to avoid the shrapnel.

Hi all. Has anyone ever dealt with these folks before? A PM who used to work at North American and also another who worked at Ruggles contacted me about working for this company. Both were really good to deal with at their former companies. However, the PM's don't sign the checks, no matter how nice the working relationship might be. So, any experience good or bad? Thanks! Rocco

At least your lines are straight. Even I can't always read my early AM scribbles.

Nice, A while back I missed out on getting a full set of Signs of the Times from start to ~1990 and have been kicking myself ever since. My favorite part was Justin Green's "Sign Game" monthly cartoon. Hmm, maybe not cartoon. Comic? Illustration? Anyway I have a box around here somewhere with years worth of those cut from the magazines. I looked forward to it each month.

I've found that with the internet age, many folds don't want to actually talk to people. Fear perhaps? Also, with the almighty CORPORATION ruling the world now, no one wants to not have a paper trail in case of problem. I've had PM's refuse to answer questions over the phone but send out yet another copy of the drawings, when I'm calling to question something on the drawings. CYA is the new golden rule. I do agree your comment about the mass e-mailing. We regularly get these from MC signs about a "potential service opportunity" and if you don't respond within 1.25 seconds, it;s already been assigned. For the "4 x 8 sign with 27 black letters" they are getting used to going online and getting prices for everything and anything. And now just about everything is a commodity.

Thanks for the replies all. I didn't get this one and am not sure to be sad/happy. No $ from that job, but no sore hands from drilling. I've used diamond hole saws, spear point glass/tile bits/etc. Those bits from granite city tool look interesting and I'll have to give them a try.

Hi all, As usual with spring weather comes the flood of quote requests. One floated in this morning and it's a Kay store on that bleeping porcelain floor tile they use on the walls. We know how to drill it but it's a ROYAL pain. We use "arrow" point glass/tile bits supplied by the customer. They work but does anyone got a better method? IIRC, on the last of these it took three guys two full days to drill the tile and install the signs. That was back in '15 so maybe I'm remembering wrong but still it was a long bit of drilling into really hard tile. There were two main signs, one plaque and two of their tagline signs, all on that blasted tile. IDK how many bits we went through. i recently did some FCO letters on granite for another client, and the arrow head glass/tile bits worked much much better than the bits i had purchased, which were specifically made for granite. HELP!

Depending on the exact configuration they aren't really that hard to make. Got a Photo? A good vice and a monkey wrench are all you really need. I used to make them all the time. Where are you located? Also, I just checked and Glantz has three different ones on their site. IDK if they will be a stock item or not.

As usual, I'm late to the party. Better late than never, or something like that. Terrific article. Eric, can I print this out and provide it to customers who are considering an LED conversion? I can't tell you the number of times I've been called to repair a sign and been asked about an LED conversion. I've even had a store owner tell me to get with the times because I told him to just replace the florescent lamps. I would ask permission to change the material cost numbers (say adding the same XX% markup on all items) because I charge customers more than $1.19 for a socket. Most shops around here (metro Philly area) change $5-6 (or more) for a pair of sockets. Again, thanks for a very thoughtfully written article.

I'm quite close to me but haven't been going for the past bunch of years. It's always in the middle of my busy season but this year I'm going to clear my schedule and head down - I hope.

I'll agree with the above. unless you cut less than 50 yards of vinyl a year a cheap plotter is a waste of time/effort. as usual buy a good tool (plotter, truck, drill, etc) and it will last and pay for itself. buy a cheap tool and you get what you pay for. My first plotter, a Gerber 4-B, lasted 30+ years. It cost $10K when we bought it way back when (with six whole fonts BTW) but until I upgraded a relatively short while ago it was still a workhorse. If it was to be a backup plotter then maybe its worth the price, but I think as a whole that we American's are bargain hunting ourselves out of jobs by buying too many cheap Asian imports. However that's a rant for another time/place.

"Thank God for LED Lighting and all the suppliers who sell to everyone. No skill, No knowledge. Just great bullshit to sell signs." I knew a tube bender (now deceased) who used to complain about all the suppliers selling transformers, GTO, etc to folks who didn't know anything and were driving down the neon market plus giving it a bad name. When I was a teenager my father used to complain about people selling lit box signs for half of what they should have been. His friend, the sign writer, complained about people with "a pickup and brush" who were selling painted signs for pennies on the dollar, and whose work faded in a year or two. There will always be folks who start off low on their pricing and can only go down from there. This looks to be one of the worst led signs I've seen but I don't expect it to get better. How it could be worse IDK, but someone will lower the bar even further. BTW, that crushed conduit is a doozie. to reduce, re-use and recycle is one thing but...

And the latest version is, please price the following list of sign types. You get about a dozen versions of signs for a customer, with no other info. Is it in a mall, is it in the middle of downtown, 150' up, 5' up, is it a concrete wall, EIFS, etc. You call and ask for info and they say, we're trying to sell this project to a potential client and just need some "budget" numbers based on "average" conditions. Oh, and can I include what the average permit cost would be and lead time? I think from now on I think that I'll send this kind of client a quote for "estimating advice" before even looking at those things.

I like the "$4 million dollars..." and will borrow that!

Thanks Sean, Due to the spring rush and family "stuff" I haven't been on here in a while. The local guy I found hasn't given me a return call yet, so I'll try them in the morning. Its not a huge job, just a few pieces to be bent.