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Everyone???????? He only needs the K-girl !!!!!!!!! Have a great birthday youngster!!!!!!!! Enjoy, and have a great year. gn

Are you allowed to state which product from each vendor is being used? gn

"Wish I could go back and do it all over again." You mean going to school again, or the part about making babies, again?? gn

What's their topic------and do you have any contact or info on it??? Thanks gn

I know they deliver to Chicago-----------thanks. What I mean is ------- to be here in Chicago. I've know Dave Glantz a longgggggg time ------ an area the size of Chicago should be home to a major player. gn

Well, you've aligned yourself with a respectible supplier. I wish that Glantz would come to the Chicago area-----------. The best that I ever dealt with was Interstate Electric out of Commerce, Calif. Being in Phoenix, I could order from them at 5PM, and have at my door step the next morning by 9AM ----- long before the local houses ever hit the streets. And terrific support came with it------------ gn

Definitely a plus----------now if, as a salesman, you can maintain that honesty, and you are working with a responsible supplier-----------you stand a good chance. gn

"Several" neon signs??? Estimated to be $15,000 ????? Damn expensive signs----------Or I need to look up the definition of "several". gn

Now I knew that if I hung in there long enough --------- you'd come up with a GREAT idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better yet, skip the session on land, and just do it on the boat. gn

Can you set it up to where when someone signs up----they either get this as part of the sign in process that they can save to re-read, or an email saying "hi", read this before you post???????? Course make it more politically correct, etc. gn

Now, that was funny -------------- gn

And for shits and giggles---have the neon people tell you what kind of trodes, what kind/type of gas mixture is being used, and what pressure is being used. And Kgirl definitely wouldn't say that I'm collapsible--------------------- gn

Because with the neon crowd, I have never watched a more self collapsible group, you would almost think they were double jointed. Wow, that's a strange description of us. I can assure that I'm NOT double jointed. But, back to Eurocom. Does that mean that they stepped up and volunteered their product----or you volunteered their product. And if they volunteered, are they having one of their "recognized" Eurocom plants do the tubes? Can't imagine them letting a non eurocom shop product something with their name on it. But-----------sure can't wait to see the results. Should be verrrrrry interesting. gn

Okay, so with taht being clarified----why bother comparing eurocom with elite or EGL??? YOu comparting trodes also, or the gas, or just see if B.S. matches the hype???? gn

And what is so special about Eurocom's "cold cathode", and why in parenthesis???? gn

Speaking of the pic forum-----------that area really needs to get updated !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Should have said the "model" forum----------- gn

Actually, years ago, 4500 was de rigue, or whatever . It was the standard, then 6500 come along and took over the world, and now 71 is preferred by many. The choices of white often make a major difference in what is percieved, yet I would say that YYZ comments that 4500 does nothing for some colors is a stretch. gn

Correct color being 6500 K??? I didn't say that-------What I said was that it would probably be more considered as the "standard". Personally, I always liked the 4500. That used to be standard millions of years ago. And then 6500K came along. Manny asked, and I'm not sure if he was being facetious or not, as to whether we "buy" neon in a range of K. If he was referring to buying 4500, or 6500, or 7100, then obviously yes. If he was referring to the range of K that a mfg decides that 6500 is in --------no, I don't, but you can't tell me that Voltarc 6500 matches EGL 6500 either. When I referred to "enough" ---- it wasn't that Eric wouldn't have enough choices --- it's just that enough light becomes more into the equation in what a particular customer wants based on price - and often that trumps brightness, and color of white. And Manny, I personally feel that an LED mfg should be involved in deciding which of their many products should/should not light up a particular letter, much in the same way that Eric should rely on his tube bender to help in the decision process, regardless of whether the decision is millimeter of glass, or the correct color to use, or the proper layout of the tubes. Personally, cheapest is not always the best way to decide a product - any product, or any service. And when you speak of Monigle or whomever spec'ing out products - obvious they do. But, we also get our fair share of clients that come in and look at our board of letters, with plex, with neon, with different LED's ---------- and they get to pick based on what it is that THEY are looking for with guidance, rather than someone deciding what they need based on price, or someones decision on which is the best white, or someones decision that brightest is the cure-all for whatever ails. That's why your product is on the board like everyone else's. Quite simply, depending on the size of the sign shop, the customer involved, etc ---- choices for the client are often times dictated by the company that makes the sign, and quite often are based on the bottom line concerns of the sign company ---thus the price of the components alone---and that is not often the best choice for decisions. gn

I have one odd thing to throw at you - our AXLE3WG65-3 module will probably only need one stroke on an 8" letter. I hate it when "will probably only need" ----------is used. On choices of white --- I personally think that 6500 white needs to be used as a "standard" and then go on from there. Why? Because that truly is the standard by which even egl 71 is compared. Depending on whether you're looking at "color", "brightness", or "enough" as in even light as the defining terms. Since perceived color is totally up to the client, and brightness is not a measureable term, "enough light" comes into play quite often. What you'll find in this sample test---is that "colors" are all over the place. Visual "brightness" is all over the place. And "enough" light is hard to determine. 6500 white ------has a range of Kelvin color. Led's are all over the place. If you turn on ANY letter, lit up by whatever your favorite choice is ---------- it usually looks pretty good. When you light up a second, and can compare----now the choices come in. Is it "whiter"? Meaning what----a bluer white, or a milky white. Your preference for the best is the determining factor. Leaving "brightness" out since it can't be measured, and looking instead at lux or lumens-----is there really enough difference to really care about? So, then, is it bright enough? IF instead, you set up a letter at one end of a dark room, and another at the other end of the room -------------- and then had to judge back and forth, rather than a side by side comparison ---------- the answers wouldn't be quite so evident. To compound all this --------in your samples. MOST led mfgs have different leds for different faces, and different choices for how much your cus;tomer wants to spend. Should we use the cheap axioms, or the more costly. The cheaper Sloan, or the more expensive Sloan, the cheaper Gelcore, or the more expensive ----------- and then, ask yourself why that particular one. One of the absolute best demos had virtually ALL the led's in samples--------and you could truly pick and choose which ones you wanted to light up and compare ---------- made some look pretty darn sick which comparing side by side. gn

1mg in a neon tube???? Seriously doubt that-------- gn

Alot more -----------thus the discussion. But then, by definition, it makes NO difference the amount. "De Minimus" standards, mandated by the state, feds, etc, state that there either "is" or "isn't" any mercury. If there is ANY mercury-------its either hazardous, or universal waste----and the rules are the same. gn

A letter "c" -------------- Seriously-------CCFL is a cold cathode fluroescent lamp. CFL is a compact fluroescent lamp.

Just a couple quick notes--- Misunderstood is probably an understatement. "Most" neon people haven't a clue how much mercury is / should be in a neon tube. "Most" benders just "guess and by golly" the amount based on supposed experience. Many fl people, including recyclers, claim that there is NO elemental mercury in fl tubes-----that its only mercury vapor???? And many people don't have a clear understanding what a CCFL is, nor the difference between that and a CFL. Now, with that being said ------------ let the discussion begin. gn

Just a couple quick notes--- Misunderstood is probably an understatement. "Most" neon people haven't a clue how much mercury is / should be in a neon tube. "Most" benders just "guess and by golly" the amount based on supposed experience. Many fl people, including recyclers, claim that there is NO elemental mercury in fl tubes-----that its only mercury vapor???? And many people don't have a clear understanding what a CCFL is, nor the difference between that and a CFL. Now, with that being said ------------ let the discussion begin. gn

I know John Perry quite well ------ he was able to take over alot of my clients when I left Phoenix. Good bender, good reputation ------- gn