YYZ

The show has been pretty ho hum IMO - of course I tend to snoop around more quietly. It's usually quite easy to let people talk and tell you all kinds of things to impress you - whether they know who/what you are or not. Lots of Korean companies here instead of Chinese, many of them seem to have been unleashed by Samsung to use their LEDs for sign products. I'll see if I can scoop some samples to send for inclusion in TW or GWH. Generally speaking, Korean products are superior to Chinese and Samsung should be able to make some decent LEDs, but none of these guy have heard of under driving - everything is driven at rated max for the LEDs - or using wire gauges to offset voltage drop. Outside of that, very little new or innovative. The usual large format guys, EMC guys, LED module guys. I guess the one "new thing" would be that most of the LED guns have been diverted from neon and are now going after fluorescent. GE, USLED, Agilight, Permlight - all have cabinets with different light sources to light them up. 3M flouting their light sheet - though I predict it won't go far due to the oddball way it has to be used and ordered. I'm glad we didn't bite the bullet and show here. The products we're coming out with would blow away next year's show, but this tear we might have looked pretty average. We do more custom stuff than most companies and that stuff can't really be shown at this sort of show - we'd only be showing every knock-off artist what we're doing. I'm tempted to just byass this sort of show altogether - aside from private meetings like I have been doing anyways - and focusing on SEGD and Retail Contruction type shows.

It's all my fault. I hacked into several of the hotel wifis and forwarded a whole whack of porn domains to your site. Anyone who goes on craigslist looking for an escort in Orlando will be forwarded here as well.

I'm booked across the street at the Hilton for Thursday and Friday nights. Hadn't planned on anything special outside a couple of planned appointments, but if there are enough people going and willing to get together, perhaps I can organize something last minute. Quick show of hands - who is attending the show and who is willing to attend a get together?

I think it's also a little misleading to call it spam. You buy a magazine knowing there will be ads and paid content, just like newspapers or almost any other print media - in other words the reader solicited the media that delivers targeted advertising. Spam is generally unwanted, unsolicited and indiscriminate abuse of electronic media to blast - and in terms of printed advertising is more comparable to junk mail. In a trade magazine, you can actually learn a great deal from the advertising itself. I do agree that the ratio of advertising to content is often too great, though - just like newspapers TV and radio nowadays - but with fewer people actually paying for "media" they really have no choice but to bring in revenues from advertising.

Hey - it's a natural part of a free market economy. In this case, LTL offers services that are outside of UL's previous scope and UL is acquiring their experience. They do offer safety certification services - which overlaps - but UL wouldn't have bought them for that. LTL has become known as one of the best labs for testing of fixture output, life expectancy, efficiency, etc... not to mention standard photometry. As UL wraps its claws around the growth of LEDs, owning a solid testing lab gives them even more control. Not a fan of this purchase, by the way - being independent is a big part of what made LTL good - but I lean towards Intertek anyways.

Generally speaking - you get what you pay for. It might not be determine by initial brightness, but more likely on the life expectancy side. There are some exceptions to (GE being over priced, Axiom being under priced), but it's wise to use caution with something that you think "wow, that's cheap". They're often nice and bright at first, then fade to 50% or less within a year. The Sloans are good in terms if life expectancy, they just aren't as bright as they could/should be for the power used. I'd be happy to help with a layout/quote using our modules, if you want to get in touch.

Happy Birthday Garrett. Try to stay away from all those chemicals for at least one day, huh?

Not being familiar with OGEL as a brand, I did a google image search and this was the only thing that came close. What the load capacity, about 3 lbs?

We produce RGB products as well - even do some storefront signs with it - but I'm very selective about the projects and they way they're implemented. I think it can reach beyond your casino type areas, as we've successfully done signs in many malls and core areas. It shouldn't be flashy-blinky and it shouldn't be for a set of channel letters for some furniture or pluming company or pawn shop. When I said this on here last year, several people tried to tear a strip off of me for being elitist or prejudice or whatever - but I'm on the same page as Chatterbox as I will steer customers to the appropriate signage and potentially refuse certain types of projects/clients. It's the responsibility of sign companies, designers and even suppliers to help push the industry upwards, not pull it downwards.

Sorry Gary, about helping derail your topic. I'll view the video when I have some more time and comment on it. To answer Brian's question... The first way a "string of LEDs" can be 100% recycled is to be removed from one set of letters and put into another. This assumes it was a quality product that outlasted the sign it was put in. I've seen this done on many occasions, especially by shops trying to save money. Unless it's part of the same sign program for the same client, this is never really done with neon... though in theory it could. The second way is to send it through the traditional recycling process. I can't give you an exact % but when the product is primarily made of plastic, copper, tin, silicon and fibreglas - it's silly to think that it becomes un-recyclable junk. Just like neon, there is no guarantee that any or all of it does actually go through the process, but my hunch is it would be somewhere between 90 and 95 percent *could be* recycled.

I get it - we've done similar things - it's just that when I went to look up the UL info on your site I couldn't find it. The easiest thing is to fit under the existing efile umbrella, as a retrofit kit has to meet a different set of standards. It's not so much the fixture warranty, but that the fixture has been altered and the previous UL is voided and there could be potential insurance issues if something were to happen. We both know it's very unlikely to happen because of the LED retrofit, but we both know how aggressive insurance companies can be when trying to avoid payment on claims or deflect blame.

Just because one guy comes on here and calls them e-junk, it doesn't make it fact. LED materials are highly recyclable also. I wanted to ask you about this... by removing fluorescent lamp components and replacing with your LED, are you not voiding the existing UL approval? Is your AuTuroa listed on its own as a lighting retrofit kit, or are you selling with same UL file as approved sign components?

Sorry - guess I shouldn't have made a sarcastic reply to someone whose first language is not english. I'm afraid the joke went completely over your head, Mauricio. PS - I'm an LED guy and my reply was not claiming that neon was better. PPS - look up "chipper" in the dictionary.

I don't know about that, man - neon is pretty chipper stuff. Very full of pep... lively even.

Deja vu. Are they re-doing this sign AGAIN, or is this an old article that somehow got re-published?

We use top-tier LEDs because they represent the best quality - great output great reliability. The patent thing doesn't cross my mind because those suppliers wouldn't even be on our radar. As far as sign shops go - it's increasingly becoming a low-dollar proposition. Even the bigger companies have a low a "low grade" alternate in cases when they'd rather not lose the work to some giveaway artist down the road who uses the $4 per foot junk. Those guys don't give a shit about patents, they just pray that the LEDs will last beyond the 1 year warranty they gave their client, further screwing their customer by charging them for new LEDs that they'll probably try to get replaced for free from the supplier (who never should have offered more than 6 months on the junk they sell to begin with). The failure of these guys to warranty their products will sting enough people that they won't sell as much once companies begin to return to some financial comfort and can start using materials they can stand behind. My hope is that as things improve in the economy just as the companies have finished learning the hard way about buying the cheapest materials - they'll return to using more modestly priced, better quality products and stand behind their work. If the economy wasn't in the state that it's in, I don't think it would be as big an issue. Companies wouldn't be scrounging for every job and doing it at the lowest cost possible just to keep their doors open. As for Toyota - I think it's shameful what's being done to them. They've had an incredible quality and safety record for some time and this is an opportunity for their competitors - including the US government who is propping up GM and Chrysler - to take shots at them and weaken their reputation. A Toyota with a sticky accelerator is still a way better car than many of the American made equivalent models - many having their own safety recalls over the years without being dragged into the town square for their 20 lashes and public humiliation.

The group wasn't that large, so either they didn't find us and left - or they were a different group of attendees entirely. There were several people who came, saw and left - so it was a bit of a hit-n-miss event. Erik - I think in future a get together would work best in a hotel suite where you have the comparison available for people to see. These restaurant meet-n-greets don't appeal to a lot of people and it seems like the last 2 times (SD and Vegas) there was people who couldn't attend or even find it - but you can be sure a greater effort would be made to see the demo if members were able to see it in person. I thin you could REALLY kick start traffic and membership by actually being in an ISA show - but if you had to have a sponsor then it would give some objectors an excuse to discredit the results - though it makes little sense for you to spend the $6K+ it would take just to set up a 10x10 booth and travel costs. The few grand it will cost you may or may not come back in members, hard to say.

What some of you don't know is that the ISA didn't publish this article, nor did they even know it was going to be published. The architect wanted to take some photos for their portfolio and then this came out with ISA's knowledge - so it's not like it's supposed to be a press release by ISA or be representative of every segment of the sign industry. Would you rather they still had desks in the hallway? Or perhaps these renos would have been OK - no matter the cost - if there was some exposed neon involved? I could understand the reaction if ISA themselves promoted their new digs as some tribute to the industry (which they didn't) and left neon out (which they also didn't), but that's not the case and the reaction here seems to come from some inferiority complex or jealousy. There IS neon in the new offices, but I guess some people need a special gold star (or flashing exposed tubes) to make them feel better.

Thanks guys. I'm not the sentimental type for dates and holidays (like most men), but it's appreciated when people remind you that you're getting older ~

So as 2010 progresses, good things are in the works for YYZ Systems. We're in the early stages of setting up a US facility that will stock and distribute our products - along with some assembly - and we're on the lookout for people to join our team. Likely to be in Orange County and cover primarily the southwestern US, and dabble elsewhere. Positions that may appeal to readers of this forum are as follows: - Sales - Sign products - Sales - Lighting products - Production/operations manager Ideally we'll be able to put together a small but efficient team of people that know the market and can hit the ground running. Experience in the sign and/or lighting industries is ideal, and ability to travel and generate new leads and accounts is also key. We want driven people that do not want a ceiling on their income. Salary & commission to be negotiated based on experience. Please submit your resume or an introductory letter to me personally - ALL communications will be held in strict confidence. Thanks, Marko Hajdinovic, President, YYZ Systems Inc. marko@yyzsystems.com

So I got in late yesterday and have to admit, the Mission Beach area around the Catamaran is pretty nice. My room overlooks the bay with the buildings downtown over the horizon. Sure beats Toronto during winter! Hotel has a sort of Hawaii feel to it and aside from the occasional low-level aircraft (military?), I'm looking forward to a couple of low key days and a little networking. Those I don't bump into at the show I hope to see Saturday at Erik's meet. For those who don't know what I look like, keep an eye out for a red Michael Jackson "Thriller" jacket and glitter glove, and walking like a zombie. That'll be me. Later, I'll be dangling an infant off my 2nd floor balcony for those who want to take some pictures while in town...

I think it's still in the conceptual stages, is it not? There hasn't been anything locked up for a team or an actual ownership group AFAIK.

Wait - so because it looks nice, it makes them arrogant asses!? I don't know how much or how little they spent - NEITHER DO YOU - I'm saying that just because it looks nice it doesn't mean it was expensive, and that we in the sign industry have a little insight into how much some millwork and halo lights might cost, which isn't that much. Hardly something to go all commie over.

I really don't see the problem. Just because it is nicely designed it doesn't mean it's extravagant or wasteful. We're all in the business - is some shiny white paint, curved edges and halo lighting really that expensive? Are digital prints on the glass suddenly a luxury? We're talking white tiles on the floor and Ikea chairs beneath your typical drop ceiling. The only thing that looks expensive is the MDF wall materials and even that is modest in comparison to the backlit stone my bank is surrounding elevators with in 44 stories of their new building. I personally feel better giving money to someone who isn't sitting behind a 70's era steel desk with wood paneling on the walls - that goes for everything from my haircuts to my lawyer. If anything, what we see in those pics is proof that with a little planning and taste, you can create something really nice looking for not a lot of investment, or even headache - aside from having to vacate during the work, which in this case would have been quick.