Thin stroke Neon Letters

[mandersen]

I am looking for someone to bid making some neon Reverse channel letters.

The drawing is called out for LED's Which we can do but the landlord is requesting Neon.

The letter stroke 1 1/8" looks way to thin for neon. How thick of stroke do you need for proper neon spacing?

Anybody out there willing to give this a shot?

C34226 Wrentham, MA (1) 8-2-12.pdf

[Erik Sine]

Not fun.

I'd embolden the letters and go at least with a 2" stroke, and use 12mm minimum. Is the design with this wireway typical to that center, or just for the client? Going to have to reconfigure that too.

Well, just saw that this is a national brand so, so much for altering it to give it more room.

Maybe tell the Prop MGMT that according to the NEC code you can't make it neon. Tell him you need at least a 1-1/2" space on all sides around the neon so the alternative is LEDs or you'll have to make it an eyebrow sign/underscore sign (if that's the right terminology)

[imanut]

?? I'm lost here. Your tag shows you are from Priority signs, as well as the layout you reference? Priority isn't a small bit player ---- however, in the drawing it's showing for led, specifically Sloan? I'd question that part, as to why? You show a 2 1/2" letter in depth - not enough for neon because you'd have no room for the neon if you do double backs, and if you use housing, you have no room in the stroke of the letter, unless you find about 1.5". By code - you need at MINIMUM 1/4" on edge of glass to the metal. IF you were to use 13mil, you'd be CLOSE - but you better have a tube bender that can actually follow the lines for the glass = if not you'll be popping your 2161 transformer all the time.

The job is doable - if you broaden the stroke a bit, CAREFULLY plan your layout for glass, deepen the letter, etc. And this is based off a really, really quick peek of the layout and guestimating your stroke. You show 1 1/8" ---- but if that's measured from the face of letter, and you still would have to subtract the two sides of .063" from that ---- well, you get the idea of how much you'd have to broaden the stroke.

If you go back to the planned leds usage - reconsider other leds for brighter halo effect.

If you just throw out there to bid - with no caveats - you will surely get someone to say "yup, I can do it" without any question. Be careful.

On another note - how did you guys come out doing the Gerber Auto conversion?

My .02.

gn

[imanut]

Erik - where do you come up with UL spec of 1 1/2" on all sides of neon? Not true.

gn

[imanut]

And it would be silly to even consider self contained.

gn

[Erik Sine]

Erik - where do you come up with UL spec of 1 1/2" on all sides of neon? Not true.

gn

I know that, I just threw out some bullshit to use LEDs and make it easier.

It's in standard UL shop drawings when using a 15,000 to bare metal BUT it's never interrupted or not too well to the ignorant, just thought that could be used as good "bullshit"

[mandersen]

If I could use LED's I would make this myself. I got the call today that the landlord is requiring Neon. I told our project manager to run the other way.

We are having the drawing revised to reflect 2" stroke and let the customer approve or reject it. I have found these forums to be very pro neon so I thought that I might find somebody that could do it and be in there wheelhouse, cause I don't want to see this one come thru ours. We don't make any neon in house and are just to busy to be messing around with a one off project like this.

[imanut]

This forum is pro neon...but more pro to having a safe, UL approved sign. Making the neon is easy but its the rest of the specs that would be tough. Thats why I said to be careful if you just throw it out there and someone just wings it. I do like the touch of putting moding in the raceway to get rid of the raceway look! Wouldnt quite do it like they describe.... but close. But alot of changes/clarifications would be needed, for sure.

Eric, The 1.5" clearance is between the unprotected wires and metal..not the distance between glass and metal, nor a protected electrode and metal.

Let us know what happens with this sign.

gn

[Erik Sine]

I know, I'm just trying to throw that out there as an out to use LEDs

[fishing nut]

THe spacing is for the bare wires to metal but also the capacitance created from the tubes. If you stay with a 7500V tranny you can go 1/4" from metal. I would do a virtual ground on it as well. @inch depth is the deciding factor though.

[fishing nut]

my mistake. 1/2 inch.

[matthewota]

As I have been taught years ago, for neon the minimum stroke width is 1 1/2"/ The assembler has to be able to get his fingers into the channel to install it. The minimum depth is 3 1/2 inches if you use Electrobits brand hardware. BUtr yu make life easier for the assemblers if you make the stroke 2 inches minimum.

I can fix this drawing for you for a price. Contact me.

[burkeenterprise]

Anyone consider making the letters out of plastic? We do a lot of custom carved/formed plastic where metal will not be a good thing. Haven't got time to look at the drawings today but if they are interior letters the plastic option works great.

[RigbyNeon]

As this drawing sits right now, it's a neon nightmare. Theses are the types of signs that end up selling tons of LED's because this sign will be arcing and burning from many places. Sometimes, when letters can't be made wider and deeper, LED's are just a better fit.

I think as the sign company you HAVE to tell this customer that it would not be in his or your companies best intersest to use neon in this application. And if he wont budge, tell him to find someone else. I would not be involved in this project as it sits right now.

If he insists on neon then you have to insist on enlarging the letters.

This is like telling GM you want them to build you a new car, but you do not want brakes! (sorry, I use a lot of auto annalogies).

Sometimes you can not allow the customer to tell you how to make a sign.