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tdewitt

Guess we better start the discussion about Obamacare and how it will affect us

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Specifically number 3 of this article.

http://chiefexecutive.net/5-tax-increases-headed-for-small-business

This article

http://usdailyreview.com/self-employed-hit-hard-by-obamacare

I could keep going all day but I'm sure you get the point. And by the way....notice that most of these articles call it OBAMACARE.

Not all the details are in but my wife carries my health insurance through her employer. their new plans rolling out soon will not have the traditional "employee/family coverage" but will be replaced as "employee/spouse/dependents" and will carry a significant up charge for the spouse. Like I said, I'm not sure how it will all lay out but I don't see it being in our favor.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Iowa is also going back to the state to try to get ANOTHER rate increase approved....13.4%, this is the 4 time in as many years that they have done this for increases over the 10% mark.

I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. What this is all boiling down to is, eventually it will NOT work and the government know it, at that point in time it will just "roll over" to a single payer system similar to the systems over seas.

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Specifically number 3 of this article.

http://chiefexecutiv...-small-business

This article

http://usdailyreview...rd-by-obamacare

I could keep going all day but I'm sure you get the point. And by the way....notice that most of these articles call it OBAMACARE.

Not all the details are in but my wife carries my health insurance through her employer. their new plans rolling out soon will not have the traditional "employee/family coverage" but will be replaced as "employee/spouse/dependents" and will carry a significant up charge for the spouse. Like I said, I'm not sure how it will all lay out but I don't see it being in our favor.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Iowa is also going back to the state to try to get ANOTHER rate increase approved....13.4%, this is the 4 time in as many years that they have done this for increases over the 10% mark.

I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. What this is all boiling down to is, eventually it will NOT work and the government know it, at that point in time it will just "roll over" to a single payer system similar to the systems over seas.

My wifes company provides my insurance as well, and every six months it gets changed based on how much more her employer can save.

Blue Cross has been raising their rates twice a month for 15 years. Back in the ninteys if you had a claim they'd either drop you, or raise your rates so much that you'd find another carrier. I'm a little confused with your comments because you explain exactly why we need a new system, then you say you don't want it.

This is the reason for "Obamacare"....You know when the insurance companies spend billions to block it, it's because they won't be able to continue to be the wealthiest industry in the country by charging huge premiums and denying claims.

You already pay for people that don't have insurance! Blue Cross just raises the rates of people that pay to cover the people that don't. A new system will help to stop this process.

My new plan though will be to just hop down to my county hospital and get the free health care that until yesterday I knew nothing about.

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I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably.

You are already (and have been for decades) paying for the health coverage of:

1. all Federal Government employees, including retires, all members of the military - past and present.

2. all state employees in your home state

3. virtually ALL people over 65, and all severely disabled people (medicare)

4. virtually ALL poor people (medicaid)

5. working people without insurance - most seeking care at hospitals or emergency rooms. (via increased costs shifted to you)

That's been the status quo for many years.

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Specifically number 3 of this article.

http://chiefexecutiv...-small-business

This article

http://usdailyreview...rd-by-obamacare

I could keep going all day but I'm sure you get the point. And by the way....notice that most of these articles call it OBAMACARE.

Not all the details are in but my wife carries my health insurance through her employer. their new plans rolling out soon will not have the traditional "employee/family coverage" but will be replaced as "employee/spouse/dependents" and will carry a significant up charge for the spouse. Like I said, I'm not sure how it will all lay out but I don't see it being in our favor.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Iowa is also going back to the state to try to get ANOTHER rate increase approved....13.4%, this is the 4 time in as many years that they have done this for increases over the 10% mark.

I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. What this is all boiling down to is, eventually it will NOT work and the government know it, at that point in time it will just "roll over" to a single payer system similar to the systems over seas.

My wifes company provides my insurance as well, and every six months it gets changed based on how much more her employer can save.

Blue Cross has been raising their rates twice a month for 15 years. Back in the ninteys if you had a claim they'd either drop you, or raise your rates so much that you'd find another carrier. I'm a little confused with your comments because you explain exactly why we need a new system, then you say you don't want it.

This is the reason for "Obamacare"....You know when the insurance companies spend billions to block it, it's because they won't be able to continue to be the wealthiest industry in the country by charging huge premiums and denying claims.

You already pay for people that don't have insurance! Blue Cross just raises the rates of people that pay to cover the people that don't. A new system will help to stop this process.

My new plan though will be to just hop down to my county hospital and get the free health care that until yesterday I knew nothing about.

Let me illustrate this whole Healthcare scenario like this. It really is a Macroeconomic Problem.

1. If you believe that Healthcare is a business that is part of an industry, then the current system is working just fine. The sole purpose of a corporation is to make as much profit legally and huamnly possible for shareholders. So, if you can maximize premiums, reduce benefits, use any excuse to throw off undesirable policyholders and basically not worry about the actual health of the patient but rather the health of the corporation, leave healthcare alone. It is working perfectly and the insurers are making fantastic profits even if patients are suffering.

2. If you believe that Healthcare is a basic human right in our country and should model itself after the European or other countries, then the system is not working fine. People have been experiencing policy hikes for years, been facing being thrown off the policy for actually having to use it, pre-existing conditions, etc. If you are in this group who believe everybody should have healthcare and not face bankrupcy if you get sick, then the system is not working for you. If you compare the administrative costs for the VA as opposed to private care you find that the VA is at about 2% while in the private sector it runs at about 30%. IE 98% of dollars at the VA go to patient care while only 70% traditionally go to patient care in the private sector. The 30% goes to the shareholders, executives, etc.

Which is better or which was addressed by the current mood of the country, I don't have the answer. Which is best? I have my ideas but each of us will have to answer that for ourselves. I believe I know which way the country is moving after the election and personally believe that Healthcare is going to go "Single Payer". It is trending in this direction.

So ask the Macro question first, "Is healthcare a business or a human right" ? The answer to this will then illuminate the path on a Microeconomic basis and should start to yield clarity to you.

Best to all


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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Specifically number 3 of this article.

http://chiefexecutiv...-small-business

This article

http://usdailyreview...rd-by-obamacare

I could keep going all day but I'm sure you get the point. And by the way....notice that most of these articles call it OBAMACARE.

Not all the details are in but my wife carries my health insurance through her employer. their new plans rolling out soon will not have the traditional "employee/family coverage" but will be replaced as "employee/spouse/dependents" and will carry a significant up charge for the spouse. Like I said, I'm not sure how it will all lay out but I don't see it being in our favor.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Iowa is also going back to the state to try to get ANOTHER rate increase approved....13.4%, this is the 4 time in as many years that they have done this for increases over the 10% mark.

I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. What this is all boiling down to is, eventually it will NOT work and the government know it, at that point in time it will just "roll over" to a single payer system similar to the systems over seas.

My wifes company provides my insurance as well, and every six months it gets changed based on how much more her employer can save.

Blue Cross has been raising their rates twice a month for 15 years. Back in the ninteys if you had a claim they'd either drop you, or raise your rates so much that you'd find another carrier. I'm a little confused with your comments because you explain exactly why we need a new system, then you say you don't want it.

This is the reason for "Obamacare"....You know when the insurance companies spend billions to block it, it's because they won't be able to continue to be the wealthiest industry in the country by charging huge premiums and denying claims.

You already pay for people that don't have insurance! Blue Cross just raises the rates of people that pay to cover the people that don't. A new system will help to stop this process.

My new plan though will be to just hop down to my county hospital and get the free health care that until yesterday I knew nothing about.

Let me illustrate this whole Healthcare scenario like this. It really is a Macroeconomic Problem.

1. If you believe that Healthcare is a business that is part of an industry, then the current system is working just fine. The sole purpose of a corporation is to make as much profit legally and huamnly possible for shareholders. So, if you can maximize premiums, reduce benefits, use any excuse to throw off undesirable policyholders and basically not worry about the actual health of the patient but rather the health of the corporation, leave healthcare alone. It is working perfectly and the insurers are making fantastic profits even if patients are suffering.

2. If you believe that Healthcare is a basic human right in our country and should model itself after the European or other countries, then the system is not working fine. People have been experiencing policy hikes for years, been facing being thrown off the policy for actually having to use it, pre-existing conditions, etc. If you are in this group who believe everybody should have healthcare and not face bankrupcy if you get sick, then the system is not working for you. If you compare the administrative costs for the VA as opposed to private care you find that the VA is at about 2% while in the private sector it runs at about 30%. IE 98% of dollars at the VA go to patient care while only 70% traditionally go to patient care in the private sector. The 30% goes to the shareholders, executives, etc.

Which is better or which was addressed by the current mood of the country, I don't have the answer. Which is best? I have my ideas but each of us will have to answer that for ourselves. I believe I know which way the country is moving after the election and personally believe that Healthcare is going to go "Single Payer". It is trending in this direction.

So ask the Macro question first, "Is healthcare a business or a human right" ? The answer to this will then illuminate the path on a Microeconomic basis and should start to yield clarity to you.

Best to all

I meant "twice a year"....not "twice a month".

I hate to agree with you Snoochie for fear of you being despised by proxy, but......................"what she said!

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I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably.

You are already (and have been for decades) paying for the health coverage of:

1. all Federal Government employees, including retires, all members of the military - past and present.

2. all state employees in your home state

3. virtually ALL people over 65, and all severely disabled people (medicare)

4. virtually ALL poor people (medicaid)

5. working people without insurance - most seeking care at hospitals or emergency rooms. (via increased costs shifted to you)

That's been the status quo for many years.

Yep....

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Specifically number 3 of this article.

http://chiefexecutiv...-small-business

This article

http://usdailyreview...rd-by-obamacare

I could keep going all day but I'm sure you get the point. And by the way....notice that most of these articles call it OBAMACARE.

Not all the details are in but my wife carries my health insurance through her employer. their new plans rolling out soon will not have the traditional "employee/family coverage" but will be replaced as "employee/spouse/dependents" and will carry a significant up charge for the spouse. Like I said, I'm not sure how it will all lay out but I don't see it being in our favor.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Iowa is also going back to the state to try to get ANOTHER rate increase approved....13.4%, this is the 4 time in as many years that they have done this for increases over the 10% mark.

I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. What this is all boiling down to is, eventually it will NOT work and the government know it, at that point in time it will just "roll over" to a single payer system similar to the systems over seas.

My wifes company provides my insurance as well, and every six months it gets changed based on how much more her employer can save.

Blue Cross has been raising their rates twice a month for 15 years. Back in the ninteys if you had a claim they'd either drop you, or raise your rates so much that you'd find another carrier. I'm a little confused with your comments because you explain exactly why we need a new system, then you say you don't want it.

This is the reason for "Obamacare"....You know when the insurance companies spend billions to block it, it's because they won't be able to continue to be the wealthiest industry in the country by charging huge premiums and denying claims.

You already pay for people that don't have insurance! Blue Cross just raises the rates of people that pay to cover the people that don't. A new system will help to stop this process.

My new plan though will be to just hop down to my county hospital and get the free health care that until yesterday I knew nothing about.

Let me illustrate this whole Healthcare scenario like this. It really is a Macroeconomic Problem.

1. If you believe that Healthcare is a business that is part of an industry, then the current system is working just fine. The sole purpose of a corporation is to make as much profit legally and huamnly possible for shareholders. So, if you can maximize premiums, reduce benefits, use any excuse to throw off undesirable policyholders and basically not worry about the actual health of the patient but rather the health of the corporation, leave healthcare alone. It is working perfectly and the insurers are making fantastic profits even if patients are suffering.

2. If you believe that Healthcare is a basic human right in our country and should model itself after the European or other countries, then the system is not working fine. People have been experiencing policy hikes for years, been facing being thrown off the policy for actually having to use it, pre-existing conditions, etc. If you are in this group who believe everybody should have healthcare and not face bankrupcy if you get sick, then the system is not working for you. If you compare the administrative costs for the VA as opposed to private care you find that the VA is at about 2% while in the private sector it runs at about 30%. IE 98% of dollars at the VA go to patient care while only 70% traditionally go to patient care in the private sector. The 30% goes to the shareholders, executives, etc.

Which is better or which was addressed by the current mood of the country, I don't have the answer. Which is best? I have my ideas but each of us will have to answer that for ourselves. I believe I know which way the country is moving after the election and personally believe that Healthcare is going to go "Single Payer". It is trending in this direction.

So ask the Macro question first, "Is healthcare a business or a human right" ? The answer to this will then illuminate the path on a Microeconomic basis and should start to yield clarity to you.

Best to all

I meant "twice a year"....not "twice a month".

I hate to agree with you Snoochie for fear of you being despised by proxy, but......................"what she said!

Isn't Snoochie a Guy??? Profile says Gender = Male

You two are missing the main point of my comment...to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. I know that I have been paying for other people's health care, beer, smokes, cell phones, houses, cars, and food for decades! But I know that with the new LAWS kicking into gear I will have to send more of my money that I had plans for (like my kids college fund) to people that will miss use it and have shown that they will miss use it for decades! Don't give me any of that BS about the guy working 2 jobs to pay for his way and still not able to afford health insurance for his family, there are programs already in place that help people in that scenario and it is run by the states. Ours in Iowa is called HAWKEYE it is just a co-op set up through the state to assist in providing health care coverage.

If you really want to gut the cost of health care and get it so everyone can afford it you take away the federal law that says insurance providers cannot cross state lines! Just like if the federal government made a law today that said sign companies could not cross state lines....Hell no nationals coming in and undercutting me and I only had to deal with the other locals bidding against me. HELL YEAH BRING IT ON!

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Specifically number 3 of this article.

http://chiefexecutiv...-small-business

This article

http://usdailyreview...rd-by-obamacare

I could keep going all day but I'm sure you get the point. And by the way....notice that most of these articles call it OBAMACARE.

Not all the details are in but my wife carries my health insurance through her employer. their new plans rolling out soon will not have the traditional "employee/family coverage" but will be replaced as "employee/spouse/dependents" and will carry a significant up charge for the spouse. Like I said, I'm not sure how it will all lay out but I don't see it being in our favor.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Iowa is also going back to the state to try to get ANOTHER rate increase approved....13.4%, this is the 4 time in as many years that they have done this for increases over the 10% mark.

I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. What this is all boiling down to is, eventually it will NOT work and the government know it, at that point in time it will just "roll over" to a single payer system similar to the systems over seas.

My wifes company provides my insurance as well, and every six months it gets changed based on how much more her employer can save.

Blue Cross has been raising their rates twice a month for 15 years. Back in the ninteys if you had a claim they'd either drop you, or raise your rates so much that you'd find another carrier. I'm a little confused with your comments because you explain exactly why we need a new system, then you say you don't want it.

This is the reason for "Obamacare"....You know when the insurance companies spend billions to block it, it's because they won't be able to continue to be the wealthiest industry in the country by charging huge premiums and denying claims.

You already pay for people that don't have insurance! Blue Cross just raises the rates of people that pay to cover the people that don't. A new system will help to stop this process.

My new plan though will be to just hop down to my county hospital and get the free health care that until yesterday I knew nothing about.

Let me illustrate this whole Healthcare scenario like this. It really is a Macroeconomic Problem.

1. If you believe that Healthcare is a business that is part of an industry, then the current system is working just fine. The sole purpose of a corporation is to make as much profit legally and huamnly possible for shareholders. So, if you can maximize premiums, reduce benefits, use any excuse to throw off undesirable policyholders and basically not worry about the actual health of the patient but rather the health of the corporation, leave healthcare alone. It is working perfectly and the insurers are making fantastic profits even if patients are suffering.

2. If you believe that Healthcare is a basic human right in our country and should model itself after the European or other countries, then the system is not working fine. People have been experiencing policy hikes for years, been facing being thrown off the policy for actually having to use it, pre-existing conditions, etc. If you are in this group who believe everybody should have healthcare and not face bankrupcy if you get sick, then the system is not working for you. If you compare the administrative costs for the VA as opposed to private care you find that the VA is at about 2% while in the private sector it runs at about 30%. IE 98% of dollars at the VA go to patient care while only 70% traditionally go to patient care in the private sector. The 30% goes to the shareholders, executives, etc.

Which is better or which was addressed by the current mood of the country, I don't have the answer. Which is best? I have my ideas but each of us will have to answer that for ourselves. I believe I know which way the country is moving after the election and personally believe that Healthcare is going to go "Single Payer". It is trending in this direction.

So ask the Macro question first, "Is healthcare a business or a human right" ? The answer to this will then illuminate the path on a Microeconomic basis and should start to yield clarity to you.

Best to all

I meant "twice a year"....not "twice a month".

I hate to agree with you Snoochie for fear of you being despised by proxy, but......................"what she said!

Isn't Snoochie a Guy??? Profile says Gender = Male

You two are missing the main point of my comment...to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. I know that I have been paying for other people's health care, beer, smokes, cell phones, houses, cars, and food for decades! But I know that with the new LAWS kicking into gear I will have to send more of my money that I had plans for (like my kids college fund) to people that will miss use it and have shown that they will miss use it for decades! Don't give me any of that BS about the guy working 2 jobs to pay for his way and still not able to afford health insurance for his family, there are programs already in place that help people in that scenario and it is run by the states. Ours in Iowa is called HAWKEYE it is just a co-op set up through the state to assist in providing health care coverage.

If you really want to gut the cost of health care and get it so everyone can afford it you take away the federal law that says insurance providers cannot cross state lines! Just like if the federal government made a law today that said sign companies could not cross state lines....Hell no nationals coming in and undercutting me and I only had to deal with the other locals bidding against me. HELL YEAH BRING IT ON!

Firstly, Snoochie=Male=Guy. Correct and guilty as charged.

Secondly, I understood the intent of your post and your concern. I simply said that you should do your own research and fact finding and not rely on what you hear in the media. They are slanted both left and right.

Thirdly, I never stated what my belief about Obamacare was or was not. I simply pointed out some facts that I do know and stated those. I have more information that I did research on but did not list on my post. I never said what side I fall on and simply stated the obvious empirical fact, Obamacare is law and I will have to deal with it.

Fourtly and I never said this prior, your State of Iowa went for President Obama and your fellow Iowans have culpability in this whole election just like my State of California. Ultimately your fellow Iowans and my fellow Californians helped make Obamacare a reality.

Lastly, In the case of the present healthcare direction of our great country, it can on a micro level be summed up like this and hopefully you don't take offense "Iowa=California=Obamacare"

Peace out....................


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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It really doesn't matter anyway... Between the Fiscal Cliff and the Honey Boo Boo generation, we're all doomed....

Doomsday is 37 days away. 12-21-12

I think it's going to be a Super Volcano Hurricane Tsunami Flu that takes us all out.

  • Like 1

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Specifically number 3 of this article.

http://chiefexecutiv...-small-business

This article

http://usdailyreview...rd-by-obamacare

I could keep going all day but I'm sure you get the point. And by the way....notice that most of these articles call it OBAMACARE.

Not all the details are in but my wife carries my health insurance through her employer. their new plans rolling out soon will not have the traditional "employee/family coverage" but will be replaced as "employee/spouse/dependents" and will carry a significant up charge for the spouse. Like I said, I'm not sure how it will all lay out but I don't see it being in our favor.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Iowa is also going back to the state to try to get ANOTHER rate increase approved....13.4%, this is the 4 time in as many years that they have done this for increases over the 10% mark.

I don't think there is anyone on here that really thinks this will be free to anyone besides the ones at the very bottom. I don't disagree with the need of health coverage but I don't believe that I should be held responsible to pay for others to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. What this is all boiling down to is, eventually it will NOT work and the government know it, at that point in time it will just "roll over" to a single payer system similar to the systems over seas.

My wifes company provides my insurance as well, and every six months it gets changed based on how much more her employer can save.

Blue Cross has been raising their rates twice a month for 15 years. Back in the ninteys if you had a claim they'd either drop you, or raise your rates so much that you'd find another carrier. I'm a little confused with your comments because you explain exactly why we need a new system, then you say you don't want it.

This is the reason for "Obamacare"....You know when the insurance companies spend billions to block it, it's because they won't be able to continue to be the wealthiest industry in the country by charging huge premiums and denying claims.

You already pay for people that don't have insurance! Blue Cross just raises the rates of people that pay to cover the people that don't. A new system will help to stop this process.

My new plan though will be to just hop down to my county hospital and get the free health care that until yesterday I knew nothing about.

Let me illustrate this whole Healthcare scenario like this. It really is a Macroeconomic Problem.

1. If you believe that Healthcare is a business that is part of an industry, then the current system is working just fine. The sole purpose of a corporation is to make as much profit legally and huamnly possible for shareholders. So, if you can maximize premiums, reduce benefits, use any excuse to throw off undesirable policyholders and basically not worry about the actual health of the patient but rather the health of the corporation, leave healthcare alone. It is working perfectly and the insurers are making fantastic profits even if patients are suffering.

2. If you believe that Healthcare is a basic human right in our country and should model itself after the European or other countries, then the system is not working fine. People have been experiencing policy hikes for years, been facing being thrown off the policy for actually having to use it, pre-existing conditions, etc. If you are in this group who believe everybody should have healthcare and not face bankrupcy if you get sick, then the system is not working for you. If you compare the administrative costs for the VA as opposed to private care you find that the VA is at about 2% while in the private sector it runs at about 30%. IE 98% of dollars at the VA go to patient care while only 70% traditionally go to patient care in the private sector. The 30% goes to the shareholders, executives, etc.

Which is better or which was addressed by the current mood of the country, I don't have the answer. Which is best? I have my ideas but each of us will have to answer that for ourselves. I believe I know which way the country is moving after the election and personally believe that Healthcare is going to go "Single Payer". It is trending in this direction.

So ask the Macro question first, "Is healthcare a business or a human right" ? The answer to this will then illuminate the path on a Microeconomic basis and should start to yield clarity to you.

Best to all

I meant "twice a year"....not "twice a month".

I hate to agree with you Snoochie for fear of you being despised by proxy, but......................"what she said!

Isn't Snoochie a Guy??? Profile says Gender = Male

You two are missing the main point of my comment...to the point that I can no longer afford to live comfortably. I know that I have been paying for other people's health care, beer, smokes, cell phones, houses, cars, and food for decades! But I know that with the new LAWS kicking into gear I will have to send more of my money that I had plans for (like my kids college fund) to people that will miss use it and have shown that they will miss use it for decades! Don't give me any of that BS about the guy working 2 jobs to pay for his way and still not able to afford health insurance for his family, there are programs already in place that help people in that scenario and it is run by the states. Ours in Iowa is called HAWKEYE it is just a co-op set up through the state to assist in providing health care coverage.

If you really want to gut the cost of health care and get it so everyone can afford it you take away the federal law that says insurance providers cannot cross state lines! Just like if the federal government made a law today that said sign companies could not cross state lines....Hell no nationals coming in and undercutting me and I only had to deal with the other locals bidding against me. HELL YEAH BRING IT ON!

Firstly, Snoochie=Male=Guy. Correct and guilty as charged.

Secondly, I understood the intent of your post and your concern. I simply said that you should do your own research and fact finding and not rely on what you hear in the media. They are slanted both left and right.

Thirdly, I never stated what my belief about Obamacare was or was not. I simply pointed out some facts that I do know and stated those. I have more information that I did research on but did not list on my post. I never said what side I fall on and simply stated the obvious empirical fact, Obamacare is law and I will have to deal with it.

Fourtly and I never said this prior, your State of Iowa went for President Obama and your fellow Iowans have culpability in this whole election just like my State of California. Ultimately your fellow Iowans and my fellow Californians helped make Obamacare a reality.

Lastly, In the case of the present healthcare direction of our great country, it can on a micro level be summed up like this and hopefully you don't take offense "Iowa=California=Obamacare"

Peace out....................

Sorry...I never even looked at your profile!

For the record, I've never given my opinion or position either. Basically because I don't know enough about it.

All I've done was reply to people that generalize, catagorize, profile, prejudge, and sterotype. Because that shit pisses me off.

I'm constantly presumed to be a flaming liberal because I often reply ( much less politically correct than you) to people that I can tell feel very strongly about something that I can also tell they no nothing about.

And I only appear liberal because it always seems to be the conservatives that comment the most negatively. Had some liberal come on and started spouting his beliefs without any facts, I may have gone around with he or she. But that never seems the case. Always the other way around.

Anyway, sorry again for the gender mishap!

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Just please stop saying we are turning into a socialist nation....... read the dang definition of socialism. The insurance system we have now sucks so why not try something new? I really don't think it can be any worse and might be better, but who knows until we try it. Unless this country gets off the same path and at least TRIES a new path, things will never change. People that think we Americans are not kept in the dark or fed propaganda by our government are blind. Hell when I was in school history books never mentioned the Vietnam and Korean wars. Look back at the cartoons when we were kids! Lots of Russian bad guys to scare kids (Burger Meister Meister Burger in Santa Claus is coming to town) they wanted us brain washed from childhood to hate Russians, and fear them!! Hell they don't want kids to have toys at christmas! LOL So just try to look past all the B.S. and then make up your mind.


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Just please stop saying we are turning into a socialist nation....... read the dang definition of socialism. The insurance system we have now sucks so why not try something new? I really don't think it can be any worse and might be better, but who knows until we try it. Unless this country gets off the same path and at least TRIES a new path, things will never change. People that think we Americans are not kept in the dark or fed propaganda by our government are blind. Hell when I was in school history books never mentioned the Vietnam and Korean wars. Look back at the cartoons when we were kids! Lots of Russian bad guys to scare kids (Burger Meister Meister Burger in Santa Claus is coming to town) they wanted us brain washed from childhood to hate Russians, and fear them!! Hell they don't want kids to have toys at christmas! LOL So just try to look past all the B.S. and then make up your mind.

Chubby;

I believe we have the absolute best medical technolgy in the world. I also believe we do not have the best medical delivery system in the world.

We talk of a Healthcare system and I believe, as you referred, we should refer to it as an Insurance system. Like I previously wrote, if you believe Healthcare is a business, then it is working exactly as it should. Profit before Patients. If you think it is a human right that should be afforded all, then its not working as it should. Patients before Profit. That is the big issue that the country has been grappling with.

Maybe Obamacare will serve to rectify this situation or maybe it will make it worse, I can only hope and pray for the latter. Each of us will decide as we see it unfold.

Best


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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Just please stop saying we are turning into a socialist nation....... read the dang definition of socialism. The insurance system we have now sucks so why not try something new? I really don't think it can be any worse and might be better, but who knows until we try it. Unless this country gets off the same path and at least TRIES a new path, things will never change. People that think we Americans are not kept in the dark or fed propaganda by our government are blind. Hell when I was in school history books never mentioned the Vietnam and Korean wars. Look back at the cartoons when we were kids! Lots of Russian bad guys to scare kids (Burger Meister Meister Burger in Santa Claus is coming to town) they wanted us brain washed from childhood to hate Russians, and fear them!! Hell they don't want kids to have toys at christmas! LOL So just try to look past all the B.S. and then make up your mind.

Chubby;

I believe we have the absolute best medical technolgy in the world. I also believe we do not have the best medical delivery system in the world.

We talk of a Healthcare system and I believe, as you referred, we should refer to it as an Insurance system. Like I previously wrote, if you believe Healthcare is a business, then it is working exactly as it should. Profit before Patients. If you think it is a human right that should be afforded all, then its not working as it should. Patients before Profit. That is the big issue that the country has been grappling with.

Maybe Obamacare will serve to rectify this situation or maybe it will make it worse, I can only hope and pray for the latter. Each of us will decide as we see it unfold.

Best

Lest I be called the Grinch, I meant to say "The Former" in my last line............. Sorry.

Best


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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Probably the main reason we have the best Healthcare in the world is because of profit. It's profitable to keep people alive and to treat illness. Take the profit out of anything. Where's the money and the incentive to develop anything new?

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Probably the main reason we have the best Healthcare in the world is because of profit. It's profitable to keep people alive and to treat illness. Take the profit out of anything. Where's the money and the incentive to develop anything new?

Mark;

We will find out soon enough.............

Best

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"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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The best health care in the world aint worth spit if you can't afford it.


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Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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Talked to a few doctors over the course of a year, these doctors are older most about to retire. They don't like where this is heading and they don't see or know what the incentive to pay for a expensive eduction or spend the time doing so if you're a young person looking to go into medicine.

Is it worth going into if you're told what to do and how much to charge?

Well the quality be there for me when I get older?

Just another variable to toss in


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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See, I wonder how true that article is.

Going back to my wifes hospital, people come from all over, from eastern Europe to the Middle East, South America. A few that I know are heavily from Saudi, UAE, Turkey, etc etc. They all come fly in, pay cash (The best customers), criticize America, get their health care, deliver their baby, demand a Social Security Card for their baby, then jump back on a plane and leave.

It would be much cheaper to fly to one of those countries, stay at home if you're one of those listed rather than come here.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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The best health care in the world aint worth spit if you can't afford it.

Chubby is correct once again.....

We spend a higher percentage of our GDP in healthcare than any Industrialized nation in the world. At the current rate it will be unaffordable by the majority of Americans very soon.

Again, I think we have the best Medical Technology in the world but definitely not the best Health Delivery system in the world. If you have the money, no better place to be sick than in the USA.

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"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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See, I wonder how true that article is.

Going back to my wifes hospital, people come from all over, from eastern Europe to the Middle East, South America. A few that I know are heavily from Saudi, UAE, Turkey, etc etc. They all come fly in, pay cash (The best customers), criticize America, get their health care, deliver their baby, demand a Social Security Card for their baby, then jump back on a plane and leave.

It would be much cheaper to fly to one of those countries, stay at home if you're one of those listed rather than come here.

The people who come here to get the best have the cash. Unfortunately, many Americans just can't afford it anymore.


"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

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Anything Involving Government will Always be a BAD thing for Consumers......

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The best health care in the world aint worth spit if you can't afford it.

If you have the money, no better place to be sick than in the USA.

Best

Very true! My health insurance prem. are $700.00 per month for Lori and I and two children. We have a $10,000.00 deductible and the crappy insurance does not pay for prescrip. or anything else. Hell according to some on here I have it made in the shade. Bullshit!


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Brian Phillips | expresssignandneon@sbcglobal.net | P. 812-882-3278

Express Sign & Neon | 119 S. 15th Street - Vincennes - IN 47591

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I'm sorry to make this statement and many of you might not believe this but I have friends that are doctors and I'll share a little of what theses guys do. I'm not saying they aren't helping people and that they aren't good at their professions but there is a system to their profession and these guys play it very well.

They refer patients with good health insurance to each other probably five to ten times a day, then pay each other in CASH for the referral. One owns a lab that does blood work, MRI's, every type of test you can imagine. This guy drives around all day with a briefcase full of cash in his trunk going from doctor to doctor paying for referrals.

Now, this same Lab charges your insurance company $1200.00 for an "open MRI". If you walk in with no insurance, they'll do it for $400.00 cash.

It's similar to the housing market 5 years ago....it has to explode pretty soon because each day it gets worse and worse.

Drug companies pay Doctors cash to prescribe medications all day, every day! Medication that you may or may not need. Medication that probably won't hurt you, but might not be helping anything either.

Doctors will always make very good money compared to the income of the area they live so I don't believe young people will ever be deterred from being a doctor for this reason. This can be seen in other countries that have similar systems in place. And if a young person wants to become a doctor just for the money, he should go into law instead, that's more of a lawyer mentality. People that choose to help people shouldn't be that concerned about the money....that's the problem right now.

And old doctors that aren't happy with what may happen to their industry are always going to hate the idea. Old people hate change, that's why young people were invented. To make changes that improve things! Hopefully!

Watch "Sicko"....Michael Moore 2007.

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I'm sorry to make this statement and many of you might not believe this but I have friends that are doctors and I'll share a little of what theses guys do. I'm not saying they aren't helping people and that they aren't good at their professions but there is a system to their profession and these guys play it very well. They refer patients with good health insurance to each other probably five to ten times a day, then pay each other in CASH for the referral. One owns a lab that does blood work, MRI's, every type of test you can imagine. This guy drives around all day with a briefcase full of cash in his trunk going from doctor to doctor paying for referrals. Now, this same Lab charges your insurance company $1200.00 for an "open MRI". If you walk in with no insurance, they'll do it for $400.00 cash. It's similar to the housing market 5 years ago....it has to explode pretty soon because each day it gets worse and worse. Drug companies pay Doctors cash to prescribe medications all day, every day! Medication that you may or may not need. Medication that probably won't hurt you, but might not be helping anything either. Doctors will always make very good money compared to the income of the area they live so I don't believe young people will ever be deterred from being a doctor for this reason. This can be seen in other countries that have similar systems in place. And if a young person wants to become a doctor just for the money, he should go into law instead, that's more of a lawyer mentality. People that choose to help people shouldn't be that concerned about the money....that's the problem right now. And old doctors that aren't happy with what may happen to their industry are always going to hate the idea. Old people hate change, that's why young people were invented. To make changes that improve things! Hopefully! Watch "Sicko"....Michael Moore 2007.

If you believe a damn thing that Michael Moore has to say then I feel for you. He's kinda like the Glenn Beck of the Libs if ya know what I mean.

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