Permits?

[manuellynch]

I had a conversation with Jim Richards from UL yesterday and we were discussing permits. He said he believed that a lot of companies doing retrofits of signs or replacing a sign on a building will not pull a permit - is this true?

Also had a few general questions:

1. How much does a permit cost for a new sign? Isnt broken into structure and electrical inspection?

2. If you were not connecting to line voltage or a branch circuit - would you pull a permit? Meaning what if it was a sign that ran on its power source (battery, wind turbine, fuel cell)

[Erik Sine]

I had a conversation with Jim Richards from UL yesterday and we were discussing permits. He said he believed that a lot of companies doing retrofits of signs or replacing a sign on a building will not pull a permit - is this true?

Also had a few general questions:

1. How much does a permit cost for a new sign? Isnt broken into structure and electrical inspection?

2. If you were not connecting to line voltage or a branch circuit - would you pull a permit? Meaning what if it was a sign that ran on its power source (battery, wind turbine, fuel cell)

Couple of things.

Permit costs can vary from county to county, also what needed can vary.

In San Diego for example, a sign permit will not be needed because the sign stays where it's at, but an electrical permit will be needed (Less cost). Because you are altering or making a modification. For something so small, I'd day 95% of the contractors wouldn't be pulling a permit for it, my guess.

Again each county is different but the basic rule applies, some of these runty counties will want to tax you twice for the same sign, making you re-pull a sign permit.

[fishing nut]

In Jersey you need a permit if the sign is removed from the building. Even if you are putting it back up the same as it was. Electrical permits are needed if you are running a new circuit. Everything here costs. Even driving down the roads we pay tolls everywhere. Corruption, gotta love it.

For #2 they would probably make you get a structural permit to support whatever is powering it. I think they will figure a way to get your money.

[manuellynch]

In Jersey you need a permit if the sign is removed from the building. Even if you are putting it back up the same as it was. Electrical permits are needed if you are running a new circuit. Everything here costs. Even driving down the roads we pay tolls everywhere. Corruption, gotta love it.

For #2 they would probably make you get a structural permit to support whatever is powering it. I think they will figure a way to get your money.

Thanks for feedback. And to think that taxes actually pay for the roads in Jersey!

What is price of electrical permit vs structural?

[fishing nut]

Thanks for feedback. And to think that taxes actually pay for the roads in Jersey!

What is price of electrical permit vs structural?

I'll check with a couple local shops on permit $'s

Taxes are to pay for hookers, houses, payoffs, ect. Our gas is finally up to 3.46, 30$ a day now.

[manuellynch]

I'll check with a couple local shops on permit $'s

Taxes are to pay for hookers, houses, payoffs, ect. Our gas is finally up to 3.46, 30$ a day now.

Agreed on the taxes. Was in New Zealand and Australia recently and learned that almost everyone pays 30% taxes but everything taken care of and covered (school, college, medical, retirement, sick time, etc). I think what is interesting is that sales taxes are higher.

We are in the $3.60s in Las Vegas. In New Zealand it was about $6.40 a gallon. Hardly any SUVs there.

Thanks for info on permit costs...was curious to know.

[geraldi]

In KY we get permits for all signs when it's a new install. When we just change the faces we get face change permits. If the size changes we have to re-submit for a new sign permit. Some cities require elec. inspections of the sign itself, not many though. They check for UL, proper grounding etc...

On a new sign install it wouldn't matter about the power source. If it's a sign and and it's going to be installed, we have to get a permit. The power source matters less than the sign right now.

In some cities I need a sign permit, an electrical inspection, foundation inspection if freestanding and a certified engineers drawings if it's a pole sign.

[geraldi]

One more thing, I have to have a business lic. in every small town I work in now. I just had to pay $225.00 for one last week. Then we have to file payroll reports to all these towns.

I can go on if you want to hear more!!

[manuellynch]

In KY we get permits for all signs when it's a new install. When we just change the faces we get face change permits. If the size changes we have to re-submit for a new sign permit. Some cities require elec. inspections of the sign itself, not many though. They check for UL, proper grounding etc...

On a new sign install it wouldn't matter about the power source. If it's a sign and and it's going to be installed, we have to get a permit. The power source matters less than the sign right now.

In some cities I need a sign permit, an electrical inspection, foundation inspection if freestanding and a certified engineers drawings if it's a pole sign.

What if the power source was off-grid solar or micro wind turbine?

[geraldi]

I would still need a permit. The permit is always based on building size, not electrical requirement.

Example:

If the customers building is 50ft accross the front the city may allow 1.5 square ft of signage for every 1ft of building frontage. So a 50 ft wide building front can have 75 sq ft of sign. Most cities now base the fee on the size of the sign with a minimum fee. I just permited a Days Inn high rise and building sign and it cost 155.00.

Some cites give you a percetage of the total area of the building. But it is always based on the building and road frontage, at least all the area I serve.

[Batch]

In South Florida you need a permit. You will have to schedule to meet the inspectors out at the site and will usually have a footer inspection on signs that require them and then a rough structural and rough electrical. Then when you call for a final you have to get the electrical finaled first before the Structural will sign off.

All electrical signs have to be controlled by a time clock and your not going to get a final if it doesn't have one.

A sign that is not connected to the grid would still be an electrical sign and requires and electrical permit. Even a non-illuminated sign would atleast require a structural permit.

We have a zoning permit for each sign as well. But, we don't have to meet them at the site usually.

Permit fees vary from city to city and county to county. Also how they let you pull the permit varies as well. For instance we installed location for one chain of restaurants that usually involved 14 window signs per location. In most municipalities we could pull one permit for all 14 window signs. But, some locations required a permit for each window signs. In some places they didn't even require permit.

[Alaska_Sign_Guy]

I work in two cities that are only 10 miles apart and the rules for what needs a permit and what doesnt are completely different. In most cases a retrofit would not need a permit in any part of Alaska.

taken as a whole 90% of alaska does not have permits for signs, or inspectors with any kind of life expectancy.

Most of the incorporated cities have something in place though but it varies wildly. Kind of like the state!!

3 days ago it was 40 below and everyone wished it would warm UP! now its 30 above and rain, snow, wind!!!

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it!

Doug

[AKC Permit - Chris Polster]

It has been our experience that if you do not remove the sign structure and only change out electrical components that only an electrical permit wil be required. Occasionally, cities will ask if any other maintenance will occur on the sign. The reason for the question is to determine if 50% or more of the sign is being replaced. If that is the case most municipalities require that the sign be permitted as if it were new and make sure that everything conforms to current code restirctions. These results are typical of California, Arizona and Nevada.

[Erik Sine]

Welcome to the forum Chris. Are you starting to fill out more and more title 24 forms with your electrical signs for CA?

[AKC Permit - Chris Polster]

It has been our experience that if you do not remove the sign structure and only change out electrical components that only an electrical permit wil be required. Occasionally, cities will ask if any other maintenance will occur on the sign. The reason for the question is to determine if 50% or more of the sign is being replaced. If that is the case most municipalities require that the sign be permitted as if it were new and make sure that everything conforms to current code restirctions. These results are typical of California, Arizona and Nevada.

[AKC Permit - Chris Polster]

Welcome to the forum Chris. Are you starting to fill out more and more title 24 forms with your electrical signs for CA?

Oops, still learning the system. I just made a double post.

Our firm has been filling our the Title 24 documents for several years now. In the beginning only a handful of cities in California required them; however, more are now.