soldering of leds

[imanut]

Question for the experts --

Speaking of leds that are not encased - if in doing a letter, such as the letter A, and rather than using wire nuts and wire to get the leds into the center portion of the A --- is it a problem to actually solder black and white wire leads onto the solder points on the led board ------ WITHOUT killing a warranty OR the leds themselves ???

And an explanation why/why not, if possible, please.

gn

[manuellynch]

Question for the experts --

Speaking of leds that are not encased - if in doing a letter, such as the letter A, and rather than using wire nuts and wire to get the leds into the center portion of the A --- is it a problem to actually solder black and white wire leads onto the solder points on the led board ------ WITHOUT killing a warranty OR the leds themselves ???

And an explanation why/why not, if possible, please.

gn

Gary, most production staff are not that "easy" on products on the production floor. With that being said, a soldering iron will usually be uncontrolled temperature and will be TOO MUCH HEAT FOR THE LED - it will kill it or shorten its life dramatically.

LEDs are mounted in very controlled environments.

We would not recommend it - I think others would agree as well - use wire nuts.

[YYZ]

Gary,

Most of the time a manufacturer does not want you to be making modifications to the product, as this would clearly affect their ability to warranty the product, exposing them to some crazy claims that may be entirely the customer's fault - but you have to go through replacement headaches just to find that out.

You should not at any time be soldering the LEDs themselves. It does sometimes happen that the wires can be bonded to the contact points of other modules, essentially making a Y connection, but most sign shops do not have someone capable of doing with this with the precision required for the manufacturer to say "Sure, anyone can solder the wires on"

We have spent some time showing certain clients how to do this and have even sold some professional, temperature controlled soldering gear to make sure it's done well, but for the must part it's not something we recommend. You can't use a $25 30W soldering iron from he hardware store, but if you're willing to set yourself up to do it properly then it's possible. Some of our products actually require the customer to be able to do this if they are buying our linear engines in volumes to do custom edgelighting or display lighting.

You'd laugh at some of the stuff we've seen out in the field or had sent back to us as defective, when it has clearly been damaged by someone who had no business trying to solder part together. Just yesterday I ja a guy tell me he had to remove one LED from each end of an RGB board "but it's OK because I jumpered across the missing LED to close the circuit and now it works". What he didn't realize was that by doing that, the 2 remaining LEDs on that section of the board were now being driven by TRIPLE their rated amperage, which would clearly cause premature failure.

There's a reason why it's usually Asian ladies with sharp eyes and high dexterity that do this sort of work in a controlled location and under supervision.

[TelfordDorr]

Speaking of leds that are not encased - if in doing a letter, such as the letter A, and rather than using wire nuts and wire to get the leds into the center portion of the A --- is it a problem to actually solder black and white wire leads onto the solder points on the led board ------ WITHOUT killing a warranty OR the leds themselves ???

And an explanation why/why not, if possible, please.

If you have a setup like this:

then it's no big deal. But it represents big bucks...

As stated, temperature control is the big issue.

And there's always the UL problem: you're modifying a listed product...

[manuellynch]

Our manufacturing is a little bit different than a bunch of Asian women with high dexterity soldering parts by hand...we say in New Zealand that we would rather have the Japanese companies have a lot of smart engineers developing a machine that can automate the assembly of LEDs and control temperatures and how they are placed and secured.

Photo shows that we are a bit more controlled and automated.

We WOULD NOT recommend solder "reworking" LED modules - and to make that letter A Gary asked about - there is a way to do a layout where you only have to have one splice...but then again we dont do layouts....but we can show anyone how to be a bit more "innovative" on how to solve a problem.

Gary - call me - will explain how to do this...this way of laying out a letter can be used for all the tough letters...remember in New Zealand we drive on the left side of the road, just think backwards and you will see that you need a lot less "splices"

[imanut]

To clarify --- I understand layouts pretty good. Just happened to be in the back shop of this new company and saw that this was being done. I questioned the shop mgr who wasn't aware that it was being done and was equally concerned and curious about the ramifications of this type of "change". So, I figured I'd throw it out there to the experts -------

And thanks for the comments, everyone.

gn

[YYZ]

Our manufacturing is a little bit different than a bunch of Asian women with high dexterity soldering parts by hand...we say in New Zealand that we would rather have the Japanese companies have a lot of smart engineers developing a machine that can automate the assembly of LEDs and control temperatures and how they are placed and secured.

Most re-work and custom assembly of jumpers, harnesses, etc is not done by machines. This is what Gary was asking and to what I was referring - not volume production - which is highly automated for us also.

Changing the jumper connections should not have any impact on the LEDs themselves if done accurately and within the right temperature rage, but it's still not something that most sign shops should consider. If you're making some sort of specialty product or working with modules/strips that are made to be "custom assembled" then you do need some guidance and a proper setup, though maybe not as crazy as the one TelfordOrr posted ;)

This is one area where USLED's "tabs" come in handy (splicing branches onto an existing string of modules), but with adequate wire (as we provide), using wirenuts or faston tabs is the best bet.

[TelfordDorr]

This is one area where USLED's "tabs" come in handy (splicing branches onto an existing string of modules), but with adequate wire (as we provide), using wirenuts or faston tabs is the best bet.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use those blue insulation-piercing wire couplers commonly seen in automotive add-on kits. They're complete crap, and make marginal to lousy connections.

Sorry, gotta vent. Hate those things...

[manuellynch]

This is one area where USLED's "tabs" come in handy (splicing branches onto an existing string of modules), but with adequate wire (as we provide), using wirenuts or faston tabs is the best bet.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use those blue insulation-piercing wire couplers commonly seen in automotive add-on kits. They're complete crap, and make marginal to lousy connections.

Sorry, gotta vent. Hate those things...

Agreed - there is one used in telecom industry that has silicone etc and is very good one. Forgot the name of it.

[imanut]

This is one area where USLED's "tabs" come in handy (splicing branches onto an existing string of modules), but with adequate wire (as we provide), using wirenuts or faston tabs is the best bet.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use those blue insulation-piercing wire couplers commonly seen in automotive add-on kits. They're complete crap, and make marginal to lousy connections.

Sorry, gotta vent. Hate those things...

Agreed - there is one used in telecom industry that has silicone etc and is very good one. Forgot the name of it.

Perhaps the 3M scotchlok 314 ??

[Erik Sine]

This is one area where USLED's "tabs" come in handy (splicing branches onto an existing string of modules), but with adequate wire (as we provide), using wirenuts or faston tabs is the best bet.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use those blue insulation-piercing wire couplers commonly seen in automotive add-on kits. They're complete crap, and make marginal to lousy connections.

Sorry, gotta vent. Hate those things...

Agreed - there is one used in telecom industry that has silicone etc and is very good one. Forgot the name of it.

Perhaps the 3M scotchlok 314 ??

Aye!

[signssilva]

Question for the experts --

Speaking of leds that are not encased - if in doing a letter, such as the letter A, and rather than using wire nuts and wire to get the leds into the center portion of the A --- is it a problem to actually solder black and white wire leads onto the solder points on the led board ------ WITHOUT killing a warranty OR the leds themselves ???

And an explanation why/why not, if possible, please.

gn