Lien Affidavits

[Vikki2021]

We have received a lien affidavit the company wants us to sign claiming we have been paid the said amount due for the jobs we completed.  As we have not received any payment, I contacted the company to ask if a payment would be coming before I signed the document, which they want sent back to them within a few days.  I was told no, the payments terms as stated in the contract would be when they would pay by.  

 

Has anyone else had this situation?  I don't want to sign something legal saying I have been paid when I have not.  This whole project has been a nightmare so I am hesitant  about signing this.

[Erik Sine]

Don't sign it. 

 

You're giving up your only guarantee to get paid.  You're supposed to be getting paid after your completion of the work you were hired for BEFORE they get paid. 

 

They are in a bind because you're being used as a extension of their "line of credit" and using you in a way their not supposed to....maybe dragging payment from 30 days to 60...90...180 days

 

In my state Subs need to be paid within 30 days by the primary contractor and as a Primary Licensed Contractor CANNOT wait to pay subs before a customer pays them.    Primaries are supposed to secure their own line of credit by other means to pay suppliers and subcontractors by a bank etc if they don't have the working capital.  

 

Subs are typically required to fill out a Lien notification, a notification that reaches the customers and banks (Before work starts) that a sub has been hired to perform work.  Once the work is finished the sub signs a Lien Release stating that the work is done and they have been paid.

 

It sounds like right now, a customer or institution wants verification that everyone from subs to suppliers have been paid so they are not held liable by someone who has been short changed, or unpaid.  Once verified they will pay the Primary

 

You sign, and you're telling the primary contractor's customer or institution you have already been paid.

 

That risk is yours

 

 

If this was happening in my state, the Contractors License Board would be all up in the Primary Contractors Business for trying to obtain a release before payment, that's illegal and they could lose their License

[Snoochie]

Vicki;

 

Have to totally agree with Josey Wales on this.

 

Do not sign that you were paid if you were not. The risk is indeed yours if you do.

 

Incredible what a hard working contractor has to go through these days...………….

 

Best of Luck!

[HansonSigns]

Never give a lien waiver - you can do a conditional waiver that says you won't lien a job as long as you get paid, then an unconditional waiver when you are paid.  Tell companies who insist on unconditional waivers before payment that it's extortion and completely unethical.

[JohnD]

You have to verify this with a lawyer.  You may be able to sign "Contingent upon receipt of payment in full"   

 

Signing something that says you have been paid, when you have not been paid, is fraud.

[Sign Lady]

I had a customer last year that wanted me to sign one that said "once paid x amount of dollars" - I didn't have a problem with that one because it didn't say I HAD been paid.  Had it said I had already been paid, I would have never signed it.  Just check the wording closely.  Some of these folks are trying harder every day to find ways around not paying or short changing!

[Vikki2021]

UPDATE:  I told them I could not sign a false document, let alone get it notarized.  Told them when I get paid, I will complete the documents and send them back.  Haven't heard a word from then since.  Haven't received a check yet either.

[Sign Lady]

I think you did the right thing.  Especially since you said the project had already been a nightmare.  I think if I didn't hear anything from them in the next day or so I would go ahead and start lien process.  Sounds like they are looking for ways not to pay you and tried to get you to sign off on it!  Good luck with this one.  That's why I love this site.  You can ask anything and get honest opinions and help.  Let us know how it works out so we can all flag the company!

[wizzy00]

Never had such a thing in my 44yrs. But i would say no, due to the fact if they went bankrupt you would not have a claim. You are signing off on any recourse.

 

[HansonSigns]

A conditional release should have some kind of wording like

Upon receipt of payment in full, and upon said payment clearing the bank upon which it is drawn, the undersigned hereby agrees to waive and release any right to a mechanics lien, stop notice, or any right against a labor and material bond on the job.

This covers you against their check bouncing - release is only effective after the check clears the bank.

 

[burkeenterprise]

We do a lot of work for casinos and large construction managers. We ALWAYS have to sign some kind of waiver BEFORE payment (usually a matter of a day or 2 before) BUT they all say "upon payment" IF it doesn't say something like that do not sign unless you #1 know the payer very well and totally trust them to pay you or #2 don't care if you get paid or not.

 

If it's a national sign company don't sign it until you see the $

[Vikki2021]

Well, the paperwork they sent was worded to say that we had been paid in full.  When I asked did that mean she was sending out a check she said no, after the paperwork is received it would be another 30 to 45 days for a check to be cut.  We all know what 'check to be cut" means.  It then sits on someone's desk for a few weeks, then gets signed, then sets again until they decide to mail it.  I still have not received any communication from them, nor any money from them.  I beginning to think I would be looking at another ImagePoint disaster if I would have signed this.  Something just isn't right

Edited February 28, 2020 by Vikki2021

[JohnD]

Immediately send out a "notice of intent to lien"...this will stop their payment process and have them come to you to stop your lien.  At which point you tell them that you intend to file the lien asap unless payment in full is made to you.   

 

As one attorney told me as he is taking $5,000 out of my pocket..."it's just business...nothing personal...just business..."   Don't be afraid to protect your own interests. 

[Erik Sine]

Does their state have a Contractors Lic?  If so, let them know you will be contacting the board if not paid from the og invoice date. 

[Sign Lady]

4 hours ago, Vikki2021 said:

Well, the paperwork they sent was worded to say that we had been paid in full.  When I asked did that mean she was sending out a check she said no, after the paperwork is received it would be another 30 to 45 days for a check to be cut.  We all know what 'check to be cut" means.  It then sits on someone's desk for a few weeks, then gets signed, then sets again until they decide to mail it.  I still have not received any communication from them, nor any money from them.  I beginning to think I would be looking at another ImagePoint disaster if I would have signed this.  Something just isn't right

 

 

If it actually says that you have been paid - do not sign it!!  I have signed a couple that say "upon receipt of payment from vendor, sign supplier will ....." - not that I had already been paid.  It feels like they are trying to sucker you into something - and if they won't return phone calls or communicate at all - listen to that little voice.  It won't steer you wrong. 

 

 

[UFB Fabrication]

I am guessing that this company had sent you some sort of contract and PO stating terms.  If they are way out of terms ask them why and if they are still delaying payment send them a notice of intent to lien project.  Every job we have had issue getting paid clears it up real quick. If it does not file the lien and get paid by their customer or land owner.  BTW Jesse James palm....

[Vikki2021]

Yes, the contract had terms but no where was it stated I was to fraudulently sign an affidavit claiming to be paid when I haven't.  I did receive correspondence today.  PM saying I haven't sent in the invoices and they would now be considered as filed late.  So, I sent her a copy of the email sent to me by HER AP department stating the invoices have already been received.  I sent them again anyway.

 

At this point I think a call to THEIR customer will resolve this issue very quickly. 

[Sign Lady]

2 hours ago, Vikki2021 said:

Yes, the contract had terms but no where was it stated I was to fraudulently sign an affidavit claiming to be paid when I haven't.  I did receive correspondence today.  PM saying I haven't sent in the invoices and they would now be considered as filed late.  So, I sent her a copy of the email sent to me by HER AP department stating the invoices have already been received.  I sent them again anyway.

 

At this point I think a call to THEIR customer will resolve this issue very quickly. 

 

 

Oh, they are just trying to get out of paying you.  I thought it before, but I know it now.  That's the oldest trick in the book - "we didn't receive your invoice on time or invoice filed late" - That's why I always save every e-mail I send the folks.  Good thing you had yours!  Hope they don't owe you a pile of money!

 

[Vikki2021]

Yep, I smell a rat.  Owe almost $14,000.00

[Sign Lady]

OMG!!!  Holy crap batman!  That's a rat alright.  Yep.  I would be filing a mechanic's lien TODAY!  Do not pass go.  We have to break these folks from using and abusing us.  If you are like us, we work too hard for our money to have to beg to be paid.  I am so sorry this is happening to you.  I will sure add these folks to my "hit the bricks" list if they contact me to do any work!  

[UFB Fabrication]

Not to come to the defense of a non payer, but these big companies are very cumbersome.  You cant just ask Betty to cut a check to______.  The project folks and the AP folks may not even be in the same floor/building or state.  One thing is for sure is that if their system is not followed it will be a pain to get paid. We likely do a mil or 2 with the big guys and have totally changed the way we expect to get paid and have had to adjust to each Biggie to work out how to work together. The rewards can be good if you can adjust to them.

[Majekday]

You need a "Conditional Release of Lien" form.