Rocco

Nice, A while back I missed out on getting a full set of Signs of the Times from start to ~1990 and have been kicking myself ever since. My favorite part was Justin Green's "Sign Game" monthly cartoon. Hmm, maybe not cartoon. Comic? Illustration? Anyway I have a box around here somewhere with years worth of those cut from the magazines. I looked forward to it each month.

I've found that with the internet age, many folds don't want to actually talk to people. Fear perhaps? Also, with the almighty CORPORATION ruling the world now, no one wants to not have a paper trail in case of problem. I've had PM's refuse to answer questions over the phone but send out yet another copy of the drawings, when I'm calling to question something on the drawings. CYA is the new golden rule. I do agree your comment about the mass e-mailing. We regularly get these from MC signs about a "potential service opportunity" and if you don't respond within 1.25 seconds, it;s already been assigned. For the "4 x 8 sign with 27 black letters" they are getting used to going online and getting prices for everything and anything. And now just about everything is a commodity.

Thanks for the replies all. I didn't get this one and am not sure to be sad/happy. No $ from that job, but no sore hands from drilling. I've used diamond hole saws, spear point glass/tile bits/etc. Those bits from granite city tool look interesting and I'll have to give them a try.

Hi all, As usual with spring weather comes the flood of quote requests. One floated in this morning and it's a Kay store on that bleeping porcelain floor tile they use on the walls. We know how to drill it but it's a ROYAL pain. We use "arrow" point glass/tile bits supplied by the customer. They work but does anyone got a better method? IIRC, on the last of these it took three guys two full days to drill the tile and install the signs. That was back in '15 so maybe I'm remembering wrong but still it was a long bit of drilling into really hard tile. There were two main signs, one plaque and two of their tagline signs, all on that blasted tile. IDK how many bits we went through. i recently did some FCO letters on granite for another client, and the arrow head glass/tile bits worked much much better than the bits i had purchased, which were specifically made for granite. HELP!

Depending on the exact configuration they aren't really that hard to make. Got a Photo? A good vice and a monkey wrench are all you really need. I used to make them all the time. Where are you located? Also, I just checked and Glantz has three different ones on their site. IDK if they will be a stock item or not.

As usual, I'm late to the party. Better late than never, or something like that. Terrific article. Eric, can I print this out and provide it to customers who are considering an LED conversion? I can't tell you the number of times I've been called to repair a sign and been asked about an LED conversion. I've even had a store owner tell me to get with the times because I told him to just replace the florescent lamps. I would ask permission to change the material cost numbers (say adding the same XX% markup on all items) because I charge customers more than $1.19 for a socket. Most shops around here (metro Philly area) change $5-6 (or more) for a pair of sockets. Again, thanks for a very thoughtfully written article.

I'm quite close to me but haven't been going for the past bunch of years. It's always in the middle of my busy season but this year I'm going to clear my schedule and head down - I hope.

I'll agree with the above. unless you cut less than 50 yards of vinyl a year a cheap plotter is a waste of time/effort. as usual buy a good tool (plotter, truck, drill, etc) and it will last and pay for itself. buy a cheap tool and you get what you pay for. My first plotter, a Gerber 4-B, lasted 30+ years. It cost $10K when we bought it way back when (with six whole fonts BTW) but until I upgraded a relatively short while ago it was still a workhorse. If it was to be a backup plotter then maybe its worth the price, but I think as a whole that we American's are bargain hunting ourselves out of jobs by buying too many cheap Asian imports. However that's a rant for another time/place.

"Thank God for LED Lighting and all the suppliers who sell to everyone. No skill, No knowledge. Just great bullshit to sell signs." I knew a tube bender (now deceased) who used to complain about all the suppliers selling transformers, GTO, etc to folks who didn't know anything and were driving down the neon market plus giving it a bad name. When I was a teenager my father used to complain about people selling lit box signs for half of what they should have been. His friend, the sign writer, complained about people with "a pickup and brush" who were selling painted signs for pennies on the dollar, and whose work faded in a year or two. There will always be folks who start off low on their pricing and can only go down from there. This looks to be one of the worst led signs I've seen but I don't expect it to get better. How it could be worse IDK, but someone will lower the bar even further. BTW, that crushed conduit is a doozie. to reduce, re-use and recycle is one thing but...

And the latest version is, please price the following list of sign types. You get about a dozen versions of signs for a customer, with no other info. Is it in a mall, is it in the middle of downtown, 150' up, 5' up, is it a concrete wall, EIFS, etc. You call and ask for info and they say, we're trying to sell this project to a potential client and just need some "budget" numbers based on "average" conditions. Oh, and can I include what the average permit cost would be and lead time? I think from now on I think that I'll send this kind of client a quote for "estimating advice" before even looking at those things.

I like the "$4 million dollars..." and will borrow that!

Thanks Sean, Due to the spring rush and family "stuff" I haven't been on here in a while. The local guy I found hasn't given me a return call yet, so I'll try them in the morning. Its not a huge job, just a few pieces to be bent.

Hi all, If you know of anyone in the general Philly area that has a 12 foot wide hydraulic press brake, please let me know. I have a customer who wants a 132" wide C channel (plus some other things) made from .125 aluminum. Thanks Rocco Abco Signs 856-663-6001 Pennsauken NJ

I've just started selling individual letters on craigslist and have gotten some small success. If nothing else I can get $15 for an aluminum letter as "distressed art" instead of a buck (or even less) as scrap.