Solid State vs. Conventional

[Erik Sine]

Anybody have any literature on links that they can point me to on the topic. Both have their strength and weakness's. I'm just looking for some real valid hard data, comparative studies perhaps on what the average life expectancy is on a properly loaded SST power supplies vs magnetics. I know magnetics last much longer, but some valid studies would be interesting to look into.

I can't find much on the internet, most studies are put out by manufacturer's.

[imanut]

I doubt you'll find any. Mfg's are only concerned about getting to the warranty end. Consider the $3,000 tv you buy, you get what 90days, maybe a year? But yet a $50 tranny is expected to give a 3 year or 5 year warranty??? Hell, you spend $30,000 for a doctor to operate on you and get zip for warranty. At one time we spoke of it as "planned obsolescense".

gn

[Erik Sine]

I doubt you'll find any. Mfg's are only concerned about getting to the warranty end. Consider the $3,000 tv you buy, you get what 90days, maybe a year? But yet a $50 tranny is expected to give a 3 year or 5 year warranty??? Hell, you spend $30,000 for a doctor to operate on you and get zip for warranty. At one time we spoke of it as "planned obsolescense".

gn

As my wifes favorite phrase "I knowwwww"

But that's what's so great about TSS, I want to get to the bottom of it all just like The Great White Hope. Then again you said it best, "it will ask more questions than give answers".

But I still want answers

[imanut]

As my wifes favorite phrase "I knowwwww"

Was that an "I know", or an "I, I, I, ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"

[Brian]

I've used the ventex advanced and really like them. The ventex neon transformers though don't seem to light tubes as well in cold weather as magnetic, but that's just my opinion

[imanut]

[

Probably a good source on contact would be Eric at E-Tech.

gn

[Erik Sine]

I've used the ventex advanced and really like them. The ventex neon transformers though don't seem to light tubes as well in cold weather as magnetic, but that's just my opinion

Have not checked warmer temps yet, but for slightly colder temps the magnetic will illuminate the lamps slightly brighter.

[Brian]

Have not checked warmer temps yet, but for slightly colder temps the magnetic will illuminate the lamps slightly brighter.

Yea I really like how small they are though I makes mounting them in the cans a breeze. Especially a surface mount...not having to put as many holes in the facade makes for a nice install

[Batch]

Yea I really like how small they are though I makes mounting them in the cans a breeze. Especially a surface mount...not having to put as many holes in the facade makes for a nice install

Less holes? So are you putting up a self contained letter?

If you are then what is the cost consideration for that compared to a remote transformer?

If you are referring to remote transformer installs. Then somehow I missed how there would be less than two holes per letter.

[Brian]

Less holes? So are you putting up a self contained letter?

If you are then what is the cost consideration for that compared to a remote transformer?

If you are referring to remote transformer installs. Then somehow I missed how there would be less than two holes per letter.

that would be 2 holes for each can for gto runs vs 1 hole for each can for power only. The cost is about the same for self contained by the time you figure in all of the sealtight and fittings for the gto with the remote install.

[YYZ]

I can vouch and say that the prevailing opinion around here is that magnetics are much more reliable for cold weather. As I understand it, most shops try to use electronic trannies for indoor signs and magnetic for outdoors.

[info@azsignandgraphics.com]

Anybody have any literature on links that they can point me to on the topic. Both have their strength and weakness's. I'm just looking for some real valid hard data, comparative studies perhaps on what the average life expectancy is on a properly loaded SST power supplies vs magnetics. I know magnetics last much longer, but some valid studies would be interesting to look into.

I can't find much on the internet, most studies are put out by manufacturer's.

We have been using solid-state ballasts for about 3 years and have nothing but problems with them. They are very vulnerable to power spikes from lighting storms. They simply blow-out dead.

We have also noticed we cannot mix and match fluorescent tubes. The tubes must be made by the same manufacturer otherwise the output lumens vary dramatically between different manufacturers.

We try to avoid solid-state ballasts.

Dave Larson

AZ Sign & Graphics, Inc.

[David Di Saia]

Good afternoon,

Electronic (Solid State) Ballast and Neon Transformers have come a long way and for the most part are equal or better compared to their Ferromagnetic counterparts.

When it comes to Solid State Neon the differences are specific to each brand, some are more sensitive to environmental conditions such as proximity to metal. Others are specifically designed in metal enclosures and made to mount in any environment regardless of proximity to metal and or plastic. Most can fall victim to “cross talk” a condition related to RF created by high frequency where the neon from one system is to close to another system and the stronger of the two can shut the other down. The fix is very simple and usually is corrected by making the clearance between systems a minimum of 1”. Some units have bi-pass which as you know is handy when trouble shooting. One of the most important things to remember when employing Solid State Neon transformers is proper aging of the neon. New neon has to be aged on ferromagnetic transformers due to the fact that SS transformers do not possess the brawn to age new tubes. This condition may be what some of you are referring to as “not as bright". The plusses are easier installations, service and more efficient power consumption making them a good choice for the environmentally conscious.

Electronic (Solid State) Ballast like transformers they have come a long way from when the original units were introduced. Although most can produce 85% brightness of their ferromagnetic counterparts with recent advances in technology some are closer to 100% as bright. The parallel wired products have become a favorite of the mass producers allowing them to teach the process of secondary wiring to new fabricators quicker and more efficiently. Another plus is the weight they in some cases weigh 50% of the traditional ferromagnetic ballast. Recently the addition of simulated Rapid Start Solid State Ballast has changed the way we service signs. Where now have the ability to change from traditional ferromagnetic ballast with series wiring directly to a solid state ballast wire for wire. This was cumbersome using the parallel unit because it meant you had to wire all the way out to the lamp sockets. The major advantage is there are really only three units needed to service any lamping scenario in normal sign service life. Most have very good energy efficiency ratings as well.

David Di Saia

Allanson Lighting Electrics

[Brian]

Good afternoon,

Electronic (Solid State) Ballast and Neon Transformers have come a long way and for the most part are equal or better compared to their Ferromagnetic counterparts.

When it comes to Solid State Neon the differences are specific to each brand, some are more sensitive to environmental conditions such as proximity to metal. Others are specifically designed in metal enclosures and made to mount in any environment regardless of proximity to metal and or plastic. Most can fall victim to “cross talk” a condition related to RF created by high frequency where the neon from one system is to close to another system and the stronger of the two can shut the other down. The fix is very simple and usually is corrected by making the clearance between systems a minimum of 1”. Some units have bi-pass which as you know is handy when trouble shooting. One of the most important things to remember when employing Solid State Neon transformers is proper aging of the neon. New neon has to be aged on ferromagnetic transformers due to the fact that SS transformers do not possess the brawn to age new tubes. This condition may be what some of you are referring to as “not as bright". The plusses are easier installations, service and more efficient power consumption making them a good choice for the environmentally conscious.

Electronic (Solid State) Ballast like transformers they have come a long way from when the original units were introduced. Although most can produce 85% brightness of their ferromagnetic counterparts with recent advances in technology some are closer to 100% as bright. The parallel wired products have become a favorite of the mass producers allowing them to teach the process of secondary wiring to new fabricators quicker and more efficiently. Another plus is the weight they in some cases weigh 50% of the traditional ferromagnetic ballast. Recently the addition of simulated Rapid Start Solid State Ballast has changed the way we service signs. Where now have the ability to change from traditional ferromagnetic ballast with series wiring directly to a solid state ballast wire for wire. This was cumbersome using the parallel unit because it meant you had to wire all the way out to the lamp sockets. The major advantage is there are really only three units needed to service any lamping scenario in normal sign service life. Most have very good energy efficiency ratings as well.

David Di Saia

Allanson Lighting Electrics

so you have a product the will wire in a series to eliminate all the wiring hassle retrofitting from mag to ss ? That would be nice there have been times we would have liked to uses a ss like the ventex advance but did not want to take the extra time to tear the sign down.