Business owners suggest changes to sign ordinance

[Erik Sine]

Business owners suggest changes to sign ordinance

Bob Challinor, Desert Valley Times • August 27, 2009

Small business owners, hotel/casinos and sign companies told city council they wanted an increase in sign square footage and heights, reasonable permit fees, equal enforcement of the sign ordinance and flexibility in placing handicap parking signs.

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These were voices not heard by council when it approved legal and technical layers of the sign ordinance last October. Members of the real estate community then had given council alternatives for commercial sign regulation. Council members Karl Gustaveson and Randy Ence had voted against ordinance approval because they were concerned the rest of the community needed another chance to comment.

Mayor Susan Holecheck, calling the ordinance “a work in progress,” said the community would have a chance “to try on the ordinance” for six months. In April, city staff reported on updates to the ordinance and received council direction to schedule sign ordinance workshops. The city will hold a second workshop Sept. 22 before the council meeting.

City council has held off on LED (light-emitting diode) sign changes until it learned more on LED technology.

“Non-commercial speech is protected more than commercial,” said Catherine Lorbeer, planning/redevelopment director. “The community values the right to speak but it also values a clean community.”

Members of the community then told council what they valued in a sign ordinance.

Ray Draper, manager of St. George-based Young Electric Sign Company, suggested raising the height of non-hotel district pole signs from 25 to 30 feet. He said pole signs in “freeway zones” – a 2,000-foot area around interstate interchanges – needed to be 50 feet tall.

“I have a problem when the city changes the sign ordinance,” said Mike Duncan of Final Details. “We don’t receive what the changes are. We can be out of compliance unknowingly. I’d like to see enforcement of the sign ordinance. Make it equal for all. (Sign) engineering work costs customers more. Why not have a standard process for signs?”

Deana Woodbury, who with George Garcia represents Randy Black’s commercial interests, said Mesquite had come a long way with its sign ordinance.

“Business have different needs than resorts,” she said. “The code needs to address differences. Sign scale should relate to parcel size. Location is important – there shouldn’t be high signs near residences, but near I-15 you need higher signs.”

Six small business owners registered their concerns with the sign ordinance.

“I have concerns with the temporary signs,” said Dee Lynn of Horizon Investments. “Thirty days (the display period) was adequate two years ago. Now it’s not adequate. The $40 fee for the temporary sign is reasonable. But the $350 to the variance bond for bigger signs? The fee is bigger than the banner (cost). The time of the process is longer than the amount of time the banner will be up.

“With handicapped signs, the plan for them is okay until later when the handicapped patrons use them. We’re not allowed to move them where they’re needed. Is it necessary to mandate where they are located?”

“I’m in a quandary here,” said realtor Jon Lyon. “I looked at this (ordinance) and wondered why it bothered me. I found why: two lawyers wrote it who didn’t live here. I’d like to ask council to take their route home and figure how many open house signs it would take to get to your home.

“If I want the city to come to my office to explain the sign code, whose job is that? I want to know from you why you think this ordinance is good and necessary. I’d like to hear your thoughts on that. It’s been up to us to pick it apart instead of the inverse.”

“I’ve been hearing for six years that things will get better for businesses in Mesquite, that stuff will get a lot easier,” said Charlie Sellner. “Everything did go smoothly for me (when he relocated his business to another part of town.)

“But I’m scratching my head because some things don’t logically make sense to me. Most retail businesses like to put lettering on windows. If you put your name on the front glass door with business hours it requires a permit if it’s done on the outside. But inside there’s no permit. What’s the difference? It costs $20 to do a door sign but it costs $40 for a permit. Things like this drive small businesses nuts.”

Jerry Thomas of Boulevard Home Furnishings said he didn’t understand temporary sign fees, calling the $40 fee for a temporary sign “unreasonable.” He said the ordinance’s time limit to display temporary signs forced his company to choose one sale over another.

Council member Donna Fairchild said the sign ordinance workshops were ”terrific” and wanted to hear what individual businesses needed.

“It’s give and take,” she said. “It’s something we have to compare notes on.”

“We’ve spent several months as a group bringing suggestions and comments,” said Henry Ricci, Mesquite Real Estate Association president. “All our ideas were turned back to us. We’ve been over this several times. To go back and start over is not a position we want to be in.”

“I’m excited to see the variety of people with interest in the sign code,” said Ence. “Mr. Lyon is completely right: the sign ordinance was written by a couple of lawyers. When we got input, it was only from the realtors. We made changes to the ordinance specifically for realtors. Other entities were left out.

“We’re getting back to finding ways here. I’m going to personally look at these things. I want to see changes that make it better for you. We also represent another part of the community that does not like to see the community cluttered with signs.”

“This is my 10th year here on council and the 10th time we’re dealing with sign ordinances,” said council member David Bennett. “I was told early on that one of the most difficult things we’d have to do is put our arms around the sign ordinance. Businesses should do what they need to succeed, but a large part of the community is retired. They moved here for the lifestyle and the aesthetics. Coupling the two is difficult.”

“This is the first time we’ve had a dialogue with the whole community together,” Gustaveson said. “Collectively we’re a lot stronger if we work out something that works for everybody. I’m sure we can make some progress.”

Lorbeer said she and her department would narrow the areas of code affected by comments stated during the workshop.

“This will give you feedback on items you threw out today,” Holecheck said. “Nothing is final. This is not another ordinance.”

[signdesignerlv]

It's good to see a city having workshops with the council members and business owners of the community. The council members typically have never owned a business so they don't understand the need for adequate signage. Is this is Mesquite Nevada? They actually charge for a permit to put the name and hours on the door of a business?? That is just crazy!! Is the city that desperate for funds??

I wish the different entities here in Las Vegas would get their act together and fix their sign codes.

Better yet if some of the inspectors just paid attention to all the illegal signs in the city would be a big improvement!!

Back on subject most sign codes and ordinances are written by council members with no input from business owner community nor the sign companies. Would be much better to hold small workshops and come to acceptable ideas from all.

I must be in a ranting mood today :)

[jamesw001]

In my area, Dallas/Ft. Worth, we've had a flurry of ordinance changes that practically eliminate pole signs (and a lot of sign companies along with it). I don't know when they all got together to decide to do away with signs, but it's all happening at the same time. Now businesses go in/out like crazy and no restaurants want to open their doors around here because they just can't make themselves seen.

I asked the City of Irving (who are revising their sign ordinance) why they were limiting pole signs at all. Their response was that they're "not limiting them as much as some Cities." I don't understand the "because we can" mentality of the Cities. If you don't have a real good, necessary reason to regulate, DON'T REGULATE!

James

Signs Manufacturing