UL labels on led signs

[NWWsigns]

The majority of my work is non electrical but have created a method for LED halo lighting that fits in with my style. I have asked inspectors for years about UL labels and have never been asked for it, until now. My understanding is that the systems itself is UL listed and it is simply like installing any light fixture. I have licensed electricians complete the circuit to make it all legal.

Any experience with this?

[Erik Sine]

Having UL components is one thing, but you have to list the sign itself. You can do this by buying wholesale or by being a custom UL shop yourself

[NWWsigns]

I am the kind of guy who over engineers everything and try to do everything right the first time - I like to sleep at night and not worry about jobs I have completed. I can not see getting UL listed unless I have to as I understand it to be expensive.

Did a but more reading on the Washington State LNI and UL stuff, here are partial pieces...

WAC 296-46B-600 Special equipment — Electric signs and outline lighting.

001 Electrical signs - general.

(1) All electrical signs within the scope of UL Standard 48, the electrical sign standard, must be listed. All electrical

signs outside the scope of UL Standard 48 will be inspected for compliance with the NEC.

From UL 48

1.5 These requirements do not cover signs specifically intended for connection to a circuit of limited power supplied by a Class 2 transformer with 30 volts or less output. These requirements cover signs that incorporate a Class 2 transformer as an integral part of the sign.

My take is that the power supply is not an integral part of the sign and obviously less than 30 volts

[geraldi]

Very interesting. I never looked at it in that way. Let us know what you find out.

[imanut]

My suggestion - tread carefully. I'm sure you're not the first to question the meaning of integral -------- but I doubt the NEC nor UL care. If your sign requires the power supply to make it work - then its a part of the sign.

gn

[UFB Fabrication]

You are asking sort of 2 questions. Your local code guy can say he want it to meet NEC and UL at minimum. Then he can say he wants something additional over and above UL and NEC. As for the channel letters the are put up in one piece Standard UL label or multiple pcs UL section label. Once you become a UL Listed shop you will quickly find that you may have to do things differently. As for your own personal design if different from UL standards than you can send it ti UL and have the product/sign go thru testing and labled. I think that method is over 20 G so I am not sure bucking the standard is the way to go.

[YYZ]

It really comes down to the local inspector's interpretation of the NEC and of UL48. UL is not the only standard out there, so if you're not a UL shop then it's the NEC that you have to follow - unless the inspector himself is going by UL48. Even in that case, you can review it with him and perhaps sway him one way or the other.

There is a reason why Class 2 is given some exemptions and next time around, will probably be more specifically exempted from the tougher guidelines currently covering grounding and such. That's the whole point of Class 2.

Really - talk to the inspector candidly and show him the specific references within the code. He really may not know and could probably benefit from knowing more about LEDs anyways, since they're only going to be used more and more.