Axiom LED accelerates ROI for LED retrofits of fluorescent

[manuellynch]

Axiom announces new LED kit pricing for our products that replace either 4 pcs T12 Fluorescent, 3 pcs T8 Fluorescent, or 2pcs T8 Fluorescent.

We have reduced pricing from $200 per fixture kit to $125.00 - thus accelerating the Return on Investment (ROI) story.

Our products are available in 5000 Kelvin Daylight, 6500 Kelvin Cool White, 4000 Kelvin Neutral White, 3500 Kelvin, and 2700 Kelvin - very warm white.

This is our most popular series http://store.axiomled.com/product_p/ao-2448-5000.htm

Large customers include: Fonterra (largest dairy company in the world), Catholic Church (largest property holder in the world), Jones Lang LaSalle (large property management company), City of San Jose, several Cities in Florida, a large hotel chain in Europe, and KFC ...to name a few.

THe story just got a lot more interesting - ROI is usually under 18 months now anywhere in the USA and as fast as 10-12 months in California and Hawaii.

[megavolt512]

How many lumens?

[megavolt512]

How many lumens?

Current high-quality 4ft 32w T8's = 3100 lumens

[manuellynch]

How many lumens?

Current high-quality 4ft 32w T8's = 3100 lumens

Our kit output is +5500 lumen or 2250 per strip - there are two strips per kit

T8 fluorescent only actualizes 60% of lumen output in a recessed ceiling fixture or about 1800 lumen - our light output is equivalent to 3 pcs of T8 in a 2x4ft recessed ceiling fixture.

[megavolt512]

T8 fluorescent only actualizes 60% of lumen output in a recessed ceiling fixture or about 1800 lumen - our light output is equivalent to 3 pcs of T8 in a 2x4ft recessed ceiling fixture.

The latest Dept of Energy Caliper testing (Round 11) was just released this week. They tested 7 recessed 4ft T8 replacements. None of the LED retrofits have 100% efficiency. The T8 fixture efficiency averaged 67% with florescent, and 84% for the linear LED retrofits.

Not trying to criticize your products at all Manual, Axioms have been some of the best performers in the GWH. I'm just questioning the ROI claimed by florescent retrofits in general, including yours. So far, I haven't seen the numbers really add up when you consider product life, cost, etc.

A 3100 Lumen T8, 36,000-hr rating, costs about $2.50 each. It costs under a dollar to completely recycle (Hg, glass, aluminum)

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/caliper_round-11_summary.pdf

[manuellynch]

You are right. The only time it makes sense is when the following is the case:

1. Energy prices above $0.15 a kWh

2. Fixture on 12+ hours per day

3. Maintenance staff is limited due to budget cuts

4. Lights are used in manufacturing line and equipment has to be moved to change the lights

5. Lights are used in application where low dust is required - semiconductor clean room, hospitals, food processing

6. It benefits the application to be "green" because it raises awareness and increases company traffic, tourism, or market leadership

7. Where the absence of fluorescent "spark" prevents fires - high methane applications

8. Where fluorescent is causing a product lifetime issue - like light strike in wine and olive processing

9. Where flickering fluorescent is causing medical issues or perceived "unacceptable cosmetic issues"

Like I always say - LED is not for everything but perfect for some things

And finally...a part I developed 5 years ago at Permlight was the first part ever tested by James Broderick's group at the DOE in their Caliper testing and even though he said the part wouldn't be acceptable the part still sold like crazy and was eventually bought out by the largest lighting company in the world...

[megavolt512]

You are right. The only time it makes sense is when the following is the case:

Not convincing for a variety of reasons.

For the sake of simplifying the comparison, I'll assume your retrofit actually delivers the lumens advertised. (I don't think a single T8 retrofit tested in the DOE program to date has delivered the advertised performance.)

1&2 - If my math is correct, using your numbers: 48 watts, 12hrs day, at 0.15c/kwh - the retrofited T8 fixture will cost 31.50/yr to run, A stock T8, 3 lamp (3x 32w) will be $63/yr. These 3 bulbs in a 67% efficient fixture will deliver 6231 lumens. Your retrofit, at 84% will deliver 4620 lumens - (closer to just two T8's, at 4154 lumens)

But let's use the numbers assuming it replaces 3x T8's. The retrofit will save $31.50 per year at 0.15c/kwh. It will take 4.76 years to recoup only the initial retrofit cost. Add a bit of labor to install it and it's easily 5-6 years. At 36K hours, there is only 8.2 years of acceptable light output in the LED system to begin with. And this assumes no failures. A single module failing will quickly skew the numbers towards the much less expensive $2.50 replacement fluorescent lamp. This is a low ROI and makes many assumptions (such as 100% LED system performance and low installation costs).

3. Maintenance staff is limited due to budget cuts

LED retrofits are not going to produce usable light much beyond the long-life T8's. Look at the lumen-degredation of the LED products (including yours) in the GWH that have operated 16K hours. I'd wager all the LED's will warrant replacment at 36K hours. (Some much sooner) 36K hour T8's are widely avail.

4. Lights are used in manufacturing line and equipment has to be moved to change the lights

Are people moving their recessed 4ft fixtures around that much? I'll give you a "partial" here as I'm sure if someone did move the fixture, the florescent tube would be more prone to breakage. But come on... this is lame.

5. Lights are used in application where low dust is required - semiconductor clean room, hospitals, food processing

Doesn't make sense. An LED retrofit in the same fixture will produce less "dust"? Why would it? A hermetically sealed glass tube is not a dust-generator. Lame.

6. It benefits the application to be "green" because it raises awareness and increases company traffic, tourism, or market leadership

I'd amend to say "appear green", as I'm still unconvinced yanking out T8's and putting in LED strips is in fact "green".

7. Where the absence of fluorescent "spark" prevents fires - high methane applications

Explosion proof T8 fixtures are readily available. No fixture with any light source will be certified "EP" with exposed connections (wirenuts, etc.) outside a sealed envelope. Again... lame. I'll use LED's if I operate a coal mine though.

8. Where fluorescent is causing a product lifetime issue - like light strike in wine and olive processing

Several vendors make florescent lights specifically for wine and beverage use (Promolux, etc.) that is claimed to minimize light struck. From what I've heard, the "light struck effect" is from exposure to ANY form of light - not just UVB or UVA. Do you have any data that white LED light provides a credible benefit for these applications? LED's are using some of the same phosphors as florescent.

9. Where flickering fluorescent is causing medical issues or perceived "unacceptable cosmetic issues"

Hardly an issue with electronic ballasts, which are now almost universal.

[Brian]

Imagine the sound of me clapping!!!!!!

[saneon]

"appear green" is exactly right.

The green marketing angle is the only reason of the 9 listed that actually gets people to pull the trigger on these retrofits for 95% of cases.

[Mr. Neon]

LMAO!!! Great reply to the "claims" of LED's being a cure for all lighting..especially when LED's tout the benefits of efficiency and cost savings...I have always said what if a diode fails in the light strip or worse a couple diodes go bad thus causing less output...what do you do then? And...I do know this does happen and will happen...nothing is perfect.