Jump to content

ELECTRIC SIGN SUPPLIES
If You're Looking For Premium Electric Sign Industry Components From Trim Cap, LED's, Neon Supplies, Power Supplies, Pattern Paper.  Then Please Visit Our Online Store or Feel Free To Call Us For Inquiries or Placing an Order!!
Buy Now

SIGN INSTALLER MAP
Looking for a fellow Sign Syndicate Company Member For A Sign Install or Maintenance Call?
Click Here

For Sign Company's Who Work As Subcontractors
Before You Work For A National Sign & Service Company You Need To Look At The Reviews Of These Companies Before You Work For Them. Learn When To Expect Payment From Them and What It's Like To Work For Them, The Good, The Bad, The Ugly. Learn and Share Your Experiences Yourself For Others

Click Here

Recommended Posts

Posted

Was just text this a lil bit ago by a wholesaler. Very sad!

This looks like the sign that fell over.

post-3-0-36855500-1364052888.jpg

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

  • Board Patron
Posted (edited)

I saw this tragic story Friday afternoon. One of the bystanders said it looked like the sign was installed with "Liquid Nails". Today the news said the airport removed a similary sign, so I found the photo. It does look like a freestanding sign, but shouldn't it have been secured to the wall? I feel so sorry for the family...

post-557-0-71484200-1364239763.jpg

Edited by HansonSigns
  • !llumenati
Posted

It would be insane not to secure to the wall. Surely the base is no deeper than the sign - which would already make it top heavy and ready to fall. With that many people running around it. And being electric on top of all that? Taking 6 guys to lay it to ground it definitely had some weight. ------- . What a shame, what a lawsuit coming up.

  • Board Patron
Posted

I wonder who the fabricator/installer was on this sign? How about the inspector for the governing body that has jurisdiction?

Surely lawsuits will follow but cannot return this young boy back to his family.

Truly saddens me to see incidents like this.

"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

  • !llumenati
Posted

I wasn't making light of the absolute horror of the little boys loss. From wht I've read, the mother, still in the hospital, doesn't even know of the death of her boy. An absolute tragedy. If they find more of the same sign type not fastened to the wall ----- oh my gosh. As strict as airports are over sign design, etc --- cant imagine how this occurred. Sure hope it wasn't a pm, or company, getting the cheapest install price coming back to haunt them. And haunt them it will...

  • Board Patron
Posted (edited)

A tragic, but preventable accident.

This sad situation just points out our responsibilities as a sign professional. This may not be considered a sign, in the scope of this project. Maybe a sign professional was not involved. The bottom line is the installer is going to bear the brunt of the blame. Regardless if this install was followed 100% to specs. The installer would have been aware of this "signs" instability when standing it upright. From the picture and video I've seen. I saw zero mechanical fasteners in the wall. It looks as if the "sign" was pre assembled, as a stand alone unit. Stood upright, the electrical and data feeds were connected. And the sign was pushed into place. I didn't see the liquid nail, maybe it was clear silicone?

As an installer, it is our responsibility to point out a potential dangerous situation. This is no different then coming across an illegal or dangerous electrical issue. By law we must rectify, or terminate the issue.

Edited by alltex
Posted

As a designer, I also feel that the installation details should be on the drawing. If they were then the installer did not build to blueprint.

  • Board Patron
Posted

very sad for the family, any job should have qualified installers or at the least a babysitter on site to baby them through the install. the sign company and the installers should be liable for this, engineers do not have hands on experience and I find "book smart" doesn't keep a sign standing for long with some engineers.

fast-cheap-good2.jpg

  • Like 1

 

63 foot Elliott v60

50 foot 8 ton crane/auger

Skid steer with forks and dirt bucket

 

Signworks Inc.
Toronto, Canada
647-999-3426

 

 

Posted

The same day this happened I had an installer from out of town stop by to purchase a power supply. As we were talking he brought up the subject of liability insurance. He was really upset that he had to have such a large liability insurance package. Here's the reason.

Posted

We have done airport work and seen the engineering. Though the airport and construction manager were very restrictive of everything we did I found the engineering lacking. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS belt and suspenders. For the little extra it cost to over kill an install it still beats the heck out of the guilt (never mind liability) of having an innocent hurt or as in this case killed. RIP little one.

Posted

What this job really needed was the archtectural CAD file to show the wall constrction. Then the designer determnes the attachment method. If this information ws not provided to the designer, well garbage in results in garbage out. Designers need proper information to render a proper drawing.

  • Board Patron
Posted

What this job really needed was the archtectural CAD file to show the wall constrction. Then the designer determnes the attachment method. If this information ws not provided to the designer, well garbage in results in garbage out. Designers need proper information to render a proper drawing.

Matt, have you ever seen the prints for an airport job before? They are so detailed, you know what color paint is being used on the base boards. I assure you this job was drawn by licensed professionals. This was not an afterthought "add on". Somewhere someone screwed the pooch. Doubtful it was the "designer".

Designers need proper training. Which only comes from real experience. A designer does not determine the structural integrity of a sign or attachment methods. That is done by a licensed engineer. Designers are paid to draw pictures of signs we can sell, and hopefully fabricate.

My in house "designer" does a nice job drawing signs we can actually build. That took quite a while to train him on sign fabrication basics. I had him spend time in the shop being a grunt. He also has spent time in the field installing signs. He now has a good skill set after 6 years. He understands how frames are welded. How pylon signs are built and installed. How neon and LED is wired.

I would never let him spec out a foundation detail. Or a wall attachment beyond a channel letter set, or a building cabinet. We have those cross sections for attachment already engineered and saved in our system. His job is to get the customers logo or design laid out. Then it's out of his hands. That's when; engineering, fabrication, installation do their jobs.

Not trying to slam you Matt. Just pointing out it takes a lot of trained professionals to complete a successful job. Somewhere in this situation, someone cut out the wrong person. Could have been through cost savings, lack of knowledge, or plain laziness. The courts will have to figure that out.

  • Like 1
  • !llumenati
Posted

In fact, airport designers, albeit all designers, are so good that they spec out stuff in their drawings that isn't made yet, absolutely won't work, is a hands down "NO" from the mfg of the product, etc. Still up to the installers to know what should NOT be done.

Posted

alltec:

I agree with everything you said. As a designer, I have seen sign drawings where the designer was not given wall section details. The designer then puts in an ambiguous connection method, showing three or four different ways to do it. As a designer, I am very careful not to assume anything when it comes to desiging and engineering a sign. As a matter of fact, when a sign DOES require engineering, I deliberatly design it weak so the engineer ADDS structure to the design. If I design it strong, engineers tend to rubber stamp the design, which results in a sign design that is overweight and costly in materials.

  • Board Patron
Posted

Matt, you may agree with me. But we're light years apart on this matter.

Posted

As a matter of fact, when a sign DOES require engineering, I deliberatly design it weak so the engineer ADDS structure to the design.

I can't believe I just read that on a professional sign board.

There's no magic bullet on this. You can't say "The installer didn't build it to blueprint" or "the designer should have had detailed installation cross sections" because you have no idea or ability to foresee what the installer runs into in the real world, as built scenario. EVERYONE at that sign company will feel some sense of responsibility for this tragedy, not just designers, not just installers, I'm sure the whole company feels as if they killed a small child.

  • Board Patron
Posted

I know it doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things and can't reverse this horrible, unnecessary and tragic event, but I wonder who the builder/installer of this electronic message sign board was?

Are there others they put in and where are they at. We don't need any similar incidents at any other airports.

Best

"Don't be afraid to see what you see" - President Ronald Reagan

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Board Patron
Posted

"When Monumental Contracting was installing the first unit, Fish Construction and Monumental exchanged communications about the units' stability and sought advice from KPS Group, the statement said.

Brasfield & Gorrie received some, but not all, of those communications, according to the statement.

"From the current information we have, it does not appear there was a definitive engineered enhancement reached to address the stability concerns," the statement said."

Just finger pointing, no solving of the issue. Poor engineering plus an unconcerned contractor who installed it.

We had a job recently to install a very tall video board (shipped in, not made by us). It was definately not stable after the complete install, so we removed it completely the same day. Fortunately, the company who shipped it paid us for the extra work and even apologized for it. Too bad all this didn't happen with that airport sign.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I didn't take the job.   And before I did anything for a company like them, I'd have to set up an ach block.   Otherwise, per my banker, it's possible that they can do a reverse ACH.   My bankers has been after me to set that up, though there is a monthly fee.   sigh, there's a monthly fee to just about anything with banks.   Paul, keeping busy i hope?    Rocco
    • Take the Money 1st. ACH the money. Then do the job.  *** Credit Cards can be cancelled up to 18 months ***
    • Wow, you will have to root through "their" protections.
    • A national sign company that I've dealt with for at least twenty-five years wants us to sign their vendor packet again this year.   At first it was a few pages but grew over time.   Last year it was fifteen pages.   Now it's twenty-two pages., plus a three page NDA.   I will have someone look it over and give me their opinion but it's getting ridiculous.    Their paperwork pusher will say that its' all "standard things" but standard for who and in whose favor?   Even if they gave me a ton of work, and it's only been one or two jobs a year recently, I'd be hesitant.   if i didn't know someone that does contacts for a living, I'd have to pay an attorney to go over this packet.    This is a national that has a good rep but it's getting to the point that we all need an attorney on hand at all times to go over paperwork.    Rant over.
    • This is the late April 2026 Update   This month we added in: GE's TX GEN4 12v .9w 6500K LED Module     G2G's WOW II Red 12V .72W     Also Including the GWH IV Snap Shot of the Project which is also included in the April Evaluation PDF Sheet.   The most important thing to take notice i2 the FC / Watt (Foot Candles per Watt).    This is the LED Chip Quality and Efficiency, this is the amount of Light Per Power.  The bigger the number the more efficient that Light Source is.  You might see a Higher Wattage LED Module with a low FC/Watt value, that means it's not too efficient....could even be pushed and in some cases over driven running hot, which can result in shorter life.   I'm going to drop an example to put things in perspective. Let's take two 2LED Modules...the Brighton - II, and the EveryLite Rebel LED Module.   The Brighton II is .8 watts, the EveryLite Rebel is almost a 1 watt Module at .96w   The 362 Foot Candle average EveryLiteRebel is brighter than the B-II Module at 348.5 FC AVG.  However the B-II Module has a 108.91 Foot Candle Per Watt Average.    So if we were to boost the Module Power of the Brighton - II and make it say, a .84w module instead of a .8w module then we can project the Brighton II Module with Foot Candle per Watt of 108.91 to have a Foot Candle Average of 365.93.   The .84w Brighton - II Module would be brighter, under driven, and more efficient than the .96w EveryLite Rebel.   Now the Flip Side...   If we made the .96w EveryLite Module to a .8w Module apples to apples to the Brighton - II Module, we can project the Foot Candle of the .8watt EveryLite Module would be 301.66 instead of the 362 FC Average.  You can see the Handicap here   So Boosting the power of so-so chips will give you more light for the "Wow" factor, but in some case is over driving, there is more heat involved....and like all electronics...they hate and fail with heat.  This is why a lot of LED MFG's recently make a 2 LED almost 1 watt Module and sell for $40 a bag....   Just something to take note of.....          On another Note, I will be taking down the TBA Vendor as the light is too low, and the Principal / Sloan Prism Module as it is dated   April's 2026 GWH IV Sheet GreatWhiteHope IV 042826 WOA.pdf
×
  • Create New...