Jump to content

ELECTRIC SIGN SUPPLIES

If You're Looking For Premium Electric Sign Industry Components Like Trim Cap, LED's, USHIO LED Lamps, Neon Supplies, or LED Power Supplies, Then Please Visit Our Online Store or Feel Free To Call Us For Inquiries or Placing an Order!!

Buy Now

NATIONAL SIGN & SERVICE COMPANY REVIEW LIST

For Sign Company's Who Work As Subcontractors

Before You Work For A National Sign & Service Company You Need To Look At The Reviews Of These Companies Before You Work For Them. Learn When To Expect Payment From Them and What It's Like To Work For Them, The Good, The Bad, The Ugly. Learn and Share Your Experiences Yourself For Others

You Must Be A Registered Member & A Subcontractor
Click Here

MEMBER LOCATION MAP

Looking for a fellow Sign Syndicate Company Member For A Sign Install or Maintenance Call? Locate a Supplier or Advertiser Regarding Thier Goods & Services?

Become a Member & Upgrade Your Free Membership So Others Can Locate You
Click Here

Recommended Posts

This is more of a vent maybe a question somewhere in here.

 

WHY DON'T PEOPLE WANT TO WORK???? And when you do find people, they don't want to listen, think they know it all and STILL don't do the job correctly.

 

If they do want to work and know what they are doing, in their eyes YOU as the employer don't do enough for them, OR they know the answers to everything but yet cant seem to get things right the first time. 

 

I am so frustrated and beyond that, at times i don't even know how to respond!!!

 

As for hiring, Installers, anyone else have as much trouble as we seems to be having finding anyone with even a little experience?

 

Any specific job boards or places to post that seem to find better/more applicants then others?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • !llumenati

 


Frustrated 1st thing in the morning leaves the entire day to really get pissed off.  

When people ask me " How many employees do you have working for you " ?
I answer  " About half "   That is the reality of being a business owner 

If this was easy,  everyone would do it.   
 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

"...about half..." :P

 

When I visit local shops, it's entertaining to see the ones that have bounced around from shop to shop and think to myself *oh boy*.  They're the ones that give owners the headache.  They have bad habits..bad work ethic, probably never learned the right way, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, they find ways to stretch the clock, and now they're at a new shop repeating what happened at other places of employment

  • Like 1

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • !llumenati

And then companies have the balls to tell Grey haired old farts that they are old and stupid.  Right on only one point... 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Board Patron

You really cant hire within the industry. Because if they are from the industry and out of work, especially now there must be a reason... The best bet I think is to just find jacks of all trades and train them on the job. Hire good human beings with positive attitudes rather then the cowboy who thinks hes done it all and seen it all, yet is looking for work.  And most of all pay them well!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Board Patron

Ah, the old "you can't get good help these days" song.  I sing it, my father sang it, Moses (no relation though my kids think that he apprenticed under me) probably sang it too.   

 

Yes, good installers are hard to find.  The good ones have steady jobs and aren't interested in talking to you.   The bad ones will tell you that they have worked for this shop (but got laid off), for that shop (which closed down), that other place (fired this time for using the company CC*), cut trees for a few years, spent time in jail (or rehab or on the lam from a wife or..).  Hmm, but can you give a guy a 2nd chance?   Don't you mean 22nd?   It's an uphill battle.

 

Paul - I love that comment.   However, at times I think half is being generous.

 

UFB - LOVE LOVE LOVE that graphic.  

 

* - relative of my wife really did get fired for running up "ONLY $2500.00" on the company CC for personal expenses and seriously couldn't understand why he got canned, and why he ended up in court.    He would have paid it back eventually.  SIGH.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

We did hire a good installer recently but that lasted only about 2 weeks.

 

He wanted to be in this area due to his son living here, but when he got here that's when the issues started.

 

Day one he shows up with two small bags and it was all he had, no place to live no real money in hand.

 

He was a very good installer, but his ego was bigger than could fit in the trucks.

 

He left because we got to a point where we decided we could no longer pay for a place for him to live, pay for all his food and listen to him bitch about it.

 

He said he had lost his drivers license ( but had a copy of it) and it was due to expire anyway and didn't seem worried about getting a new one, so he couldn't even drive our trucks.

 

When he left he told us he did us a favor and we should have basically rolled out the red carpet and kissed his feet ( of course not those exact words), and supported him like we were taking him to raise.

 

He also said he got hired elsewhere and they were flying him out, where ever out was.

 

In reality he did do us a favor, as we just didn't see the drama ending.

 

Now the hunt for a replacement continues.

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Board Patron
3 hours ago, Twright said:

We did hire a good installer recently but that lasted only about 2 weeks.

 

He wanted to be in this area due to his son living here, but when he got here that's when the issues started.

 

Day one he shows up with two small bags and it was all he had, no place to live no real money in hand.

 

He was a very good installer, but his ego was bigger than could fit in the trucks.

 

He left because we got to a point where we decided we could no longer pay for a place for him to live, pay for all his food and listen to him bitch about it.

 

He said he had lost his drivers license ( but had a copy of it) and it was due to expire anyway and didn't seem worried about getting a new one, so he couldn't even drive our trucks.

 

When he left he told us he did us a favor and we should have basically rolled out the red carpet and kissed his feet ( of course not those exact words), and supported him like we were taking him to raise.

 

He also said he got hired elsewhere and they were flying him out, where ever out was.

 

In reality he did do us a favor, as we just didn't see the drama ending.

 

Now the hunt for a replacement continues.

So you did NOT hire a good installer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a good installer, so I hired myself =0)  Been doing it for 6 yrs now.  Started supporting all the local sign shops, got so busy I had to convince my dad to retire from the postal service and work for me.  Now I'm grooming my son an nephew!  Fully agree with going outside the industry.  I started life as a mechanic. 

 

I love being an installer because no one is ever sad to see the sign guy show up and get to work bringing their business to life!  After getting a look into the back door of several sign companies I see the issues they face and feel for them....but I also see some self inflicted wounds.  Installers tend to be the end of the whip and have to make up for all of the timing issues through out the project.  Its hard to want to work hard when your not set up for success.  There are a few sign companies with killer processes (sales all the way through end of project fully mapped out) and have seen great success with hiring, training and retaining sign installers.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a LOT of truth to that

 

 

46 minutes ago, Bkohtz said:

 

..but I also see some self inflicted wounds.  Installers tend to be the end of the whip and have to make up for all of the timing issues through out the project.  Its hard to want to work hard when your not set up for success.  There are a few sign companies with killer processes (sales all the way through end of project fully mapped out) and have seen great success with hiring, training and retaining sign installers.  

 

 

 

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Board Patron

If you find a good one in this region (NC or SC) PLEASE let me know!  When you hire one they think they should make $50 an hour and run the entire place because they know everything about everything.  A true pain in the hind parts!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been trying to hire an as in 1 experienced person for over a year...I didn't think it would be hard. What a fool am I.

I guess I got spoiled with the people I had. Most of them had been with me over 10 years. (Treat them right and pay them well) When it was time to move on I got my eyes opened for me. Not a single worthwhile EXPERIENCED applicant.

I too have taken to hiring for uncommon sense and train to be a sign person.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well for now the boss man is on the truck with my one and only installer/ service guy, oh yeah did I mention I really need 2 Installers which is why one with SOME experience would be awesome!  I would love to have my service guy back on service as much as possible and only help install when needed. But ya do what ya gotta do. And we are as always!

 

Oh and Guess what??  As of today I now need a painter too ( i do have others that paint but have other positions here as well)!!!! Since we had to let the one we had go as it was more costly to keep him anymore due to all the redo's.  He used to be an aircraft painter, but sure had trouble with channel letters 🥺.

 

But I have to say that can be an easier spot to fill, I already have an interview set for Monday and he was/is an automotive painter.

 

So while I have no expectations for it to be a one and done kind of thing, my phone chat with him  made things seem promising.

 

I will fill you in on that aspect of things next week.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2019 at 3:32 AM, UFB Fabrication said:

BTW this is a nationwide epidemic getting skilled labor and people that will work.  

 

Nah, it's international.

 

For over 30 years I employed staff, average was around five to seven people including myself. Many were long term. For the past five years it's just me and I could not be more content and now I get to pick and choose who I work for and the jobs I take on.

No more stress, no  more staff.

 

GC

image.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

At 68 and still installing part time for other companies. We are in the same boat, companies having problems finding good help. One problem is that employees need benefits, can't raise a family with out them. Surprised how many employers do not offer this and also underpay. When some employers get an experienced employee the tend to jam the long hours to them. So guys like others do not. In my case I worked out of town last week and put in 62 hrs in 4 days and the guy I am helping out was pissed when I didn't want work the Friday. 

I ran my ran my own company for 44 yrs, from my experience a lot of companies do not have a company policy that is review and signed with new employees, I find a lot of employers their communication skills suck, resulting in new and old employees screwing up, and tend to slam the work at their people. When my employees were acquiring a huge amount of overtime, it was time to put another crew on the road.

For our Royal Bank in Canada, I have mentored many business, not too many in the sign business, but finding good reliable help is every ones problem. I tell it how it is during the hiring process, and encouraged my employees to vocal their problems with me without the risk of being fired. I don't know with I am an expert, but when i retired I ha 3 employees with 20 plus years and 1 with 30yrs.  And sure if found a good employee who was willing to learn, we taught them, but also rewarded them with bonus's and gift cards. I figure it takes a good 2 yrs or better to train some one and a sure loss if you lose them to your competitor.

Thanks for letting me ramble on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, a small update.  I found a painter that had experience ( oh yeah not sure i mentioned we had to let the new painter go last week that we hired a month or so back) , and sounded familiar with the type of paint we use by the questions that he asked me.  We set up a time and day for him to come in for an interview. 

 

He no showed.

 

Had an interview set up yesterday for an installer

 

He no showed

 

🥺

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm retired now, after 50 years in the business - 36 years running my own shop.  Everyone is spot on about the problem of finding qualified help.  Or even unqualified help for that matter.  There isn't room enough here to write all of my thoughts on all of the problems in this industry, so I'll just pass on a recent observation.  I happened to see a help wanted ad from a sign company, something like this: 

 

"XYZ is the premiere leader in the Kansas City sign industry, and we're looking for partners to grow with us"  Candidates must be a team player in a fast-paced corporate environment. Should have a degree in rocket science, be able to lift 80 pounds, be proficient in Corel, Adobe, Word, CAD, vinyl and wrap installation, knowledge of neon and high voltage wiring, welding, (Stick, Tig & Mig,),  layout and design skills, have a CDL license, be able to back  up a 30 ft. trailer,  operate a crane, know about fluorescent and LED lighting, not be afraid to dig foundations in 90 degree heat or work over 100 ft. in the air, , experience with every kind of hand and electrical tools, excellent customer communication skills, and able to leap over tall buildings with a single bound.  Starting pay $14.00 per hour.

 

Funny.

Good luck to you all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • !llumenati

Funny, sad, and true.  Went to a small company here, told me, boy, you've got the experience, but we're looking for a 18-20 year old with that kind of experience! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Board Patron
On 6/29/2019 at 6:15 PM, bonehead said:

"XYZ is the premiere leader in the Kansas City sign industry, and we're looking for partners to grow with us"  Candidates must be a team player in a fast-paced corporate environment. Should have a degree in rocket science, be able to lift 80 pounds, be proficient in Corel, Adobe, Word, CAD, vinyl and wrap installation, knowledge of neon and high voltage wiring, welding, (Stick, Tig & Mig,),  layout and design skills, have a CDL license, be able to back  up a 30 ft. trailer,  operate a crane, know about fluorescent and LED lighting, not be afraid to dig foundations in 90 degree heat or work over 100 ft. in the air, , experience with every kind of hand and electrical tools, excellent customer communication skills, and able to leap over tall buildings with a single bound.  Starting pay $14.00 per hour.

Or you can just wait for the fast food chains to raise the minimum wage to $15 and just know how to pull a burger out of a microwave and overcook fries.  I can see why sign companies are short handed.

 

Worked for a sign company once that even after proving all the skills they needed and then some, wanted us road guys all to get CDL licenses.  When asked how much more per hour the job will then pay for the extra hastle,  was told you will be allowed to keep your job.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

It can certainly be a huge headache. I recommend high turnover until you get the good employees you want to keep. Then give them a reason to stay with you.

 

But you have to pay them what they are worth. That can be hard because there are so many "bargain bin" sign companies out there that routinely price themselves into poverty because they cannot figure out how much of their revenue should go towards paying their employees.

 

I'm sure it's the same reality as any other industry.

 

Charge what you need to charge in order to pay what you need to pay to keep those good employees you want to keep.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Most LED MFG's will just suggest layouts and tell you how many LEDs per foot without telling you how their LEDs will match up against the Standard Lighting in our industry which is Fluorescent HO Lamps.  If you haven't done any lighting for cabinets or never noticed, most fall short of even meeting the luminance that Fluorescent lamps give out on a sign face.   The light that falls short is known as "Usable Light", or light that just gets you there.  It's not Competitive lighting that you would need if your sign I located in a shopping center in competition with other signs looking to be noticed.   So here we have our new BrightON II....       The conventional Fluorescent HO (800ma High Output) Lamp light output is the standard in the Electric Sign Industry.  When loaded, configured, and installed correct with no cross talk, these lamps and ballasts are a VERY good light source that last for years.   Our High Efficient High-End BrightON IV HO LED modules match the light output of Fluorescent HO lamps of our longtime Electric Sign Standards in lighting applications.  More Light for Lesser Power   The Brighton IV LED is Constant Current, uses a High Efficient chip for illumination, mounted on a Aluminum PCB for better thermal cooling...not that we need Aluminum for a chip that is already under driven and produces less heat & resistance due to operating on a 24V System.   With the BrightON IV you'll save money in project costs over buying specialized proprietary channels/bars (Another reason for a sale) by simply purchasing some right angle aluminum channels for the top and bottom of a sign cabinet, and placing aluminum tubing in between to mount your High-End low cost BrightON IV LEDs on.         Double Face Sign Test Cabinet  4’ x 4’ x 12” D Module to face 5” Sign Face 3/16” Plexiglas MC White #7328       Fluorescent HO Lamp System Lamps in single and double faces cabinet fabrication typically are spaced 12” OC (On Center) Sign Face Luminance: 156.5 Foot Candles Power Consumption: 126 Watts     BrightON IV Double Face Sign Cabinet Spacing.  8” OC Module to Module, 12” OC Between Rows for Module to Sign Face in depths of 5” or 3” 5” Module to Sign Face Luminance: 156.5 Foot Candles 3.5” Module to Sign Face Luminance: 164 Foot Candles Power Consumption: 76.8 Watts   126 Watts - 76.8 Watts = 39% Savings in Energy Consumption   Single Face Spacing Suggestions 5” Depth, 9” - 9.5” spacing between rows, 7.5” - 8.5” spacing between modules 3” Depth, 8” - 9” spacing between rows, 8” - 9” spacing between modules     BrightON IV Usable Light Spacing If you want and need "Usable Light", here it is...some cases call for it.  This lighting would be slightly brighter than Hanley's NRG4.   Double Face Sign Cabinet Spacing.  9.5” OC Module to Module, 12” OC Between Rows for Module to Sign Face in depths of 5” or 3” Sign Face Luminance: 134.5 Foot Candles Power Consumption: 64 Watts   126 Watts - 76.8 Watts = 49% Savings in Energy Consumption         Why use the BrightON IV LED?   • For starters it's Constant Current unlike using Principal LED's Constant Voltage Qwik Mods or others.  Constant Current means each module is current regulated with translates to longer life.   • It's a 24 Volt system, which means our system has half the current running through the wiring and board which translates to half the heat & resistance of a 12 volt system.  In other words....Longer Life.   • With a 24V system you're able to use more LED modules on a single 96W channel over a 60W channel.       BrightON IV Aspects     24V High Performance, High Brightness LED Module Half the Amperage, Less Heat & Resistance than a 12V LED Module Aluminum PCB 40 Modules Per Bag 32.5’ (Full Stretch) 1.23 Modules Per Foot Constant Current Regulated, NOT Constant Voltage 175˙ High Efficiency Uniformity Optics 5 year, 50K Lifetime U.L. File E520387         For Inquiries or Orders you can contact us at (858) 880-1400 | orders@thesignsyndicate.com | order through our online Shopping Cart below        
    • SDS Automation is seeking a full-time parts manager with 3-5 years of experience to manage our parts department in our Boulder, CO location. To learn more about this great opportunity and apply for the position, click here: https://www.ziprecruiter.com/job/79b352df  
    • I can only speak for myself but.....I'd be embarrassed to be listed in the newest Signs of The Times June Issue of "Women In Signs"   For as long as I've been in the Sign Industry, and that's since the Spring of 1993...Women have always been in STRONG and POWERFUL positions in the Sign Industry from Sales, Project Management & Ownership.   This Sign Brochure and Rag does (which is what it is slowly creeping back too) nothing more other than Handicap Women.    Women don't need a special issue, trophy, notoriety to underline their "doings" or "Accomplishments", they've been doing it for decades and as long as I can remember.  Well, at least the "Spartan" like Women I know of this industry.  We live in a Merit driven society and we're always judged/advanced by our own production and accomplishments based on our own individual efforts, that's what this country grants us no matter our gender, religion, or background....and we have NO ceiling or cap.     There may be a few in our industry that feel like they can't make it in the world without some sort of handicap, or cut in line because of their gender, religion or background....but I don't know them...well, I'll walk that back...I know a few...VERY few.       I don't know what this rag is trying to get at with this issue, but it's really NOT a Sign of The Times...it's really "Behind the Times".    An article of "The People of The Sign Industry" would be a far better read, and across better merit base rather than "gender" victimization.....Finding content to write about must be slow right now.  
    • We use Cirrus out of New Hampshire which is another U.S. made system and they have great customer service and warranty on their product - our customers that can not afford watchfires are happy with this emc - they have financing as well 
    • I have been a Watchfire dealer for years and I am very happy with them but I am looking for a cheaper second option for my customers who just cannot afford a Watchfire EMC. Just curious if anyone can give me direction on a cheaper sign that they have been satisfied with. Thank you! 
×
  • Create New...