Trade Magazines Poll - Which is the Best?

[Erik Sine]

I'd like to get some opinions of the various trade magazines we have for our sign trade. I'm referring this topic to the electric sign industry of our trade.

Are you of the opinion that they are genuinely helpful? Or are they just used to promote products of their vendors and advertisers?

Do we really see "Honest Journalism" that performs background checks, information checks into what they write BEFORE publishing. Do they preserve our sacred trade? Or are most articles intended to propagandize and sell first, integrity second?

Have you ever seen a "whistle blower" hard investigative type articles from any of them? Articles that deal with product quality & integrity, industry monopolies, etc?

Why have we never seen test comparisons of light products on Neon & LED's published like The Sign Syndicate.com has done for over a year now?

With so many article used to promote products and the "anyone can do it, & sell it" attitude aimed at amateurs, what level of danger by inexperienced individuals does this affect? What effect does it have on the qualified individuals and companies?


I ask this mainly because of all the surveys various trade magazines have been sending me. It seems they are not asking the right questions of why I would read one over the other or none at all, but asking me who I read or follow, and how often.

[Brian]

It is sad that most if not all trade magazines are puppets of the advertisers

because they cannot survive without the ad money.

[Erik Sine]

It is sad that most if not all trade magazines are puppets of the advertisers

because they cannot survive without the ad money.

This is true, the Fraggles need to eat too. I'm hoping the magazine people who visit this site will take notice and view the answers that they either can't ask or won't openly in their surveys.

I think of this as my public service to them, free of no charge, on the house. They can use this tool that I am handing them to benefit themselves and make the changes their readers would like to see, AND not take it as "bashing" them unnecessarily.

I tell you what, first publisher to follow the advice will drive up their circulation and readership.

Controversy always brings ratings right?

[Kingpin Creative]

I have worked for a few contributers of magazines... not all of them did this, but contributers have been put in a position to lose some benefits from companies who supply them with free equipment or supplies if they do not mention them... very disappointing.

[ordwayaz]

There are some creative thoughts and information in some of the articles and I stress, some. I think they seem to have lost their way as time went on. I open a copy up and it's just advertising and it's so transparent in the most of the articles.

Most of them now....are just warm ups for the sign shows and conventions, nothing much more.

[dwtubman]

I'd like to get some opinions of the various trade magazines we have for our sign trade. I'm referring this topic to the electric sign industry of our trade.

Are you of the opinion that they are genuinely helpful? Or are they just used to promote products of their vendors and advertisers?

Do we really see "Honest Journalism" that performs background checks, information checks into what they write BEFORE publishing. Do they preserve our sacred trade? Or are most articles intended to propagandize and sell first, integrity second?

Have you ever seen a "whistle blower" hard investigative type articles from any of them? Articles that deal with product quality & integrity, industry monopolies, etc?

Why have we never seen test comparisons of light products on Neon & LED's published like The Sign Syndicate.com has done for over a year now?

With so many article used to promote products and the "anyone can do it, & sell it" attitude aimed at amateurs, what level of danger by inexperienced individuals does this affect? What effect does it have on the qualified individuals and companies?

I ask this mainly because of all the surveys various trade magazines have been sending me. It seems they are not asking the right questions of why I would read one over the other or none at all, but asking me who I read or follow, and how often.

[dwtubman]

I don't know of any Service oriented trade mags out there-Sine that is where the 'problems' have to be resolved-it seems there should be much more emphasis on what works-what lasts-and what doesn't.

ALSO-Most installers and servicers learn by expereince-not by taking the contractors licensse exams.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Kgirl

[TecnoluxMan]

Good poll

[HansonSigns]

There are some creative thoughts and information in some of the articles and I stress, some. I think they seem to have lost their way as time went on. I open a copy up and it's just advertising and it's so transparent in the most of the articles.

Most of them now....are just warm ups for the sign shows and conventions, nothing much more.

I tend to agree. You really have to weed out the glop to get to the helpful stuff. I think that by their very nature, sign mags are careful not to offend their advertisers with negative sounding articles. So writing said articles is a real challenge, but I think it could be done. If you have time to do it, that is!

[Erik Sine]

I tend to agree. You really have to weed out the glop to get to the helpful stuff. I think that by their very nature, sign mags are careful not to offend their advertisers with negative sounding articles. So writing said articles is a real challenge, but I think it could be done. If you have time to do it, that is!

If you only knew how many of their various tech columnists have left because of that. Some good people have left, people I used to enjoy reading. I hope they blog somewhere and talk about, what it was they wanted to discuss.

Some of these magazines are career infomercialists, they have magazines for other trades as well. It's too bad other trades also get the same ol plain vanilla flavor that we are left with to read.

[UFB Fabrication]

We did a really nice sign a year or so ago that was very unique. We documented all aspects of fabrication and design. We spent a good deal of time getting info from the designer, engineer, our portion, installer and customer. We even provided a background history as this was supposed to be a replica of the original sign. We had checked with the editor and they said they had room to run the article and was in the format they needed. The ended up not publishing it. I am afraid I should have got on of their advertisers that we used product from.

I also dont feel like they put enough info about the importance of a listed and or properly permitted job. I think the "this is so easy a cave man can build it" using this advertiser is what gets the newbs in trouble.

Our suppliers are very good at having product reps with the latest and greatest before the trade shows and magazine ads.

[Erik Sine]

We did a really nice sign a year or so ago that was very unique. We documented all aspects of fabrication and design. We spent a good deal of time getting info from the designer, engineer, our portion, installer and customer. We even provided a background history as this was supposed to be a replica of the original sign. We had checked with the editor and they said they had room to run the article and was in the format they needed. The ended up not publishing it. I am afraid I should have got on of their advertisers that we used product from.

I also dont feel like they put enough info about the importance of a listed and or properly permitted job. I think the "this is so easy a cave man can build it" using this advertiser is what gets the newbs in trouble.

Our suppliers are very good at having product reps with the latest and greatest before the trade shows and magazine ads.

Now that is funny.

I thought about sending one of them a very well documented set of Light & energy efficient reverse channel letters using custom coated tri-phosphor & rare earth phosphor coated CCFL's loaded on SST's. But I doubt they would publish it because it's about that plain 'ol neon and as you know, they just don't publish those types of articles these days

Speaking of "even a caveman can so it" check out this related thread and probably one of the reasons for this thread.

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3179

[LiteGirl]

I have not revisited this poll since it made my selections, the results are amazing to me. What is up with that magazine that no one selected, most of the people who took the poll seem to feel pretty much the same you do.

[Erik Sine]

I have not revisited this poll since it made my selections, the results are amazing to me. What is up with that magazine that no one selected, most of the people who took the poll seem to feel pretty much the same you do.

It's funny when you look at the results, also it's foretelling of the times.

There is a big mistrust especially these days but the fact of the matter is, there has always been a grumbling of the trade magazines, the problem has always been there just wasn't anywhere to voice them in a united front for others to see and join in.

Look, let's be real honest here. The biggest problem with the trade magazine and why they don't make real good decisions is because most of them have never even designed, fabricated, or even touched a sign before nor dipped into the real politics of the sign world. Their just advertising and marketing majors, doing what they do to sell.

They all read this forum, again, hopefully they'll take the results here and run with it. Especially the magazine in DEAD last place. It's more accurate to say, it never left the starting line.

[Gino]

Years ago, I used to read all the motor head magazines… and you know what they have in common with the sign magazines of today…… they cater to their buddies.

Ever wonder how 10 different magazines all coming out the same week…. month after month and have the latest and best cars on the road for so many different reasons ?? It’s whoever supplied them with their copy for testing and coverage. You could have 3 British cars, 2 German cars, 2 Japanese cars, 3 American cars and they all passed with flying colors because the tests were controlled for whatever comparisons they were checking out.

You can make just about any claim about any product with statistics to back you up. It all depends on how accurate those tests were in the first place.

Well if you have a certain amount of advertisers… you have to make their automobiles look good.

Signs are no different. We get the results on whatever advertisers want us to see that they are currently pushing. They will feature a sign shop that does a particular kind of work and then those suppliers plaster the living crap out of those pages nearby.

I enjoy reading the magazines for certain content, but they are hardly what I’d call sign magazines. They are more like sign supply pusher bulk mail to a paying captive audience.

[Erik Sine]

The poll results are still truly interesting. The last question shows how much readership quenches for TRUE non-biased articles, 96% to 4%. It's also interesting how those with a career in certain fields voted.

[ArrowSign]

Wow - I'm a bit shocked at how jaded and cynical we've become as a group. I feel like I'm back in the record industry.

I had a recent experience with one of the magazines listed, and it was smooth and professional from the beginning. We didn't pay for an ad, and there was no quid pro quo on any aspect of the project. We were on the cover, and featured on four or five pages inside. Then again, I am a marketing genius and all-around nice guy.

Nice! Love the drummer emoticon!! >>> http://www.facebook.com/jlilly?v=box_3#!/video/video.php?v=1517029607773

[Erik Sine]

Wow - I'm a bit shocked at how jaded and cynical we've become as a group. I feel like I'm back in the record industry.

I had a recent experience with one of the magazines listed, and it was smooth and professional from the beginning. We didn't pay for an ad, and there was no quid pro quo on any aspect of the project. We were on the cover, and featured on four or five pages inside. Then again, I am a marketing genius and all-around nice guy.

Nice! Love the drummer emoticon!! >>> http://www.facebook.com/jlilly?v=box_3#!/video/video.php?v=1517029607773

Hi John, welcome back.

The cynicism/jadedness rests on what we as a trade have been spoon fed over the years and how "they" who are outside our industry have mis-characterized parts of our trade due to advertising/favors, paybacks, etc. I think a larger majority of who visits the SS on a regular basis are FAR more intelligent than other readership anywhere else, and compared to those who only look into one mainstream avenues for their information. When I read here, everyone seems to know their shit, and it's hard to fool anyone here with marketing statements that much is know. The electric sign industry is a trade and not fan or commodity based.

This poll in this thread is mainly based on this forum of various topics, not sure if you've read any of those threads yet.

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/forum/158-trade-magazines/

Saw your article in SOT, I'm one of Arrow's biggest fans for sign work. Always love the work I see come across the Gallery books and contests, phenomenal isn't a big enough word. The article you wrote is one of the rare exceptions of what has been out in the magazines lately, opposite the same issue "Holiday Inn". I had voiced my opinion on that upcoming article and of course, once again, I got ignored with no answer or reply to my questions or concerns. Something tells me they have had it for so long THEIR way, how dare these little people question them, that goes for the Sign Associations too who are made up of a re-treaded roster of the same ol'. The trade magazines/associations will never really delve into the facts and figures and publish them. I'm not saying their bad, some have their people who have good intentions, some have their agenda, some are "useful idiots" used by others as their vehicle. I'll stop here

On your W article, loved it and it was refreshing. The planning and management seemed quite the undertaking that no five pages could have truly captured the monstrous scope (was there a bulk purchase of TUMS somewhere inthe office?). It just thought it had one small Achilles heel when it went into the illumination part.

IMO, not every light source needs to be based on energy consumption, BUT, what lasts, what is the right light output for that job, what is easy to maintain, etc etc etc (nutz and boltz application stuff). The "environment" (I love that term too) was brought up , CCFL lamps are 100% recyclable, "mercury" was also mentioned with the choice of going LED. Red neon lamps don't have mercury, they are straight gas/discharge and the longest lasting lamp with no light degradation over time, they are also unaffected by temperature versus LED's. Maintenance issues solely rest upon the "know how" of the bender for proper lamp processing, project planners for configuring and proper loading, installers for carrying out the plan. I understand the choice Arrow chose for the signs, it's up high, it's far from the shop etc (I'm not hatin'). Neon and Fluorescent lamps just got a little mis-characterized in the small part of the article. That was my only petty gripe

None of this is ever talked about in trade magazines, well I can't say ever (what I mentioned above). One magazine IS stepping up to the plate in the next few months before years end however. My opinion has changed on trade magazines (faith restored), well for one particular magazine anyway. The others have some catching up to do, one is so far behind it never left the start line

Again, welcome back!

[ArrowSign]

Thanks for the kind words. I was thinking a lot about this survey last night and into this morning.

I mentioned the record industry because many of the music-related magazines had an unspoken policy that effectively required bands to pay for ads (CD releases, concerts) in order to get a CD or concert reviewed. And guess what? All the reviews were positive?

There was no critical analysis of the music, no comparisons to anything negative and really nothing more useful than a bio on the band. A glorified ad, that always ran in the same issue as the paid ads. It is basically the publishing version of "Payola" (radio pay-to-play).

As legal observers would note, the problem with Payola-type situations is not in promoting one band/brand over another. The problem is arbitrarily blocking relevant alternatives - eliminating choice in a free market.

In the music business, like any other, the big boys would come in and throw their money around promoting their latest, greatest artists. They run up the ad prices and effectively eliminate the competition through lack of exposure. Only their artists' products were reviewed and featured, with maybe a ringer thrown in for credibility once in a while.

I have written articles for SOT and SBI, and have never had this experience with them.

I think you are on the right track. The sign industry needs a new magazine dedicated to transparency and knowledge-sharing. Like a Consumer Reports for sign products. I would like to see, for example, two LED manufacturers sit in a studio and back up their claims against each other a la the "Deadliest Warrior" TV show. Ask tough questions until we get straight answers. Argument/Rebuttal - all that. Like a debate. A clear winner and loser.

Having a magazine dedicated to that sort of thing would help educate customers on the whole "apples to apples" comparisons, and provide much needed insight into a fast-changing marketplace. Better yet, it would make a pretty sweet web-show too. Like that "Does it Blend?" guy on YouTube. Maybe SignPeople.TV isn't a bad idea. Maybe web video is a better venue for this sort of review? It would be awfully powerful on video.

[Erik Sine]

Heh, hate to give too much to early but, stay tuned for our video web bi weekly reports

[Brian]

Hi John, welcome back.

I think a larger majority of who visits the SS on a regular basis are FAR more intelligent than other readership anywhere else,

Very true Eric just look at me I am the smartest guy I know!!!! LOL

[imanut]

Hi John, welcome back.

I think a larger majority of who visits the SS on a regular basis are FAR more intelligent than other readership anywhere else,

Very true Eric just look at me I am the smartest guy I know!!!! LOL

[LiteGirl]

Saw the hotel a couple of weekends ago when I was with my friends in Hollywood near the Capital Records building.  Didn't see it at night but it looked fancy.  My friends think I'm odd when I point out signs to them, I swear I never paid attention before ---hehe