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I know a lot of old time benders dead now that lived full lives don't know of any who have health problems related to mercury or working near fires. If it was by shortened life I'm sure it might have something to do with the stresses of self employment anspecailly if you live over here in California. But that's just me, maybe someone on this board knows of someone who died from Mad Hatters or slow grueling poisoning by earths natural elements.

As for broken lamps, just think of the average consumer who tosses their CFL lamps in the trash after their spent and wind up in a landfill, that's a bigger class all onto itself and a lot more of those around than Neon lamps that would fraction that. If it's by hurricane then there are probably far more dangerous things to worry about that might be floating around in the vortex like spoons, forks, plates and even semi-trucks.

well, back to the Drake Hotel


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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I don't know how it is over there, but here in Texas we frequently get a good laugh out of the "Known To The State Of California To Cause" such & such labels. Sure, its proven on lab rats in dosages high enough to kill an elephant, but whatever. It is what it is.

If the Drake fails within 5 years Sloan will be the ones to fix it. Whats the warranty on neon?

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We get a kick out of some texans that write untruths.

You write that glass tubes release mercury, especially after they are broken? So you sre saying that if unbroken that they still release mercury? Ha.

You say that anyone bending neon for lots of years HAS to suffer from merc poisoning? Ha. My dad, 54 years, Al Sklar about 60 years, myself at 40 years, Dean Blazek at about 40 years.....and many more old farts that have died......did not have, nor ever have, issues with merc poisoning. Tim Cummings whose business was epa testing of neon shops would totally destroy your bunk about us old timers and merc issues.

How bout explaining to all of us a bit of who you are, your background in the sign business and your experience with neon AND led, and from where you have received such wrong information that you have been stating as fact.

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We get a kick out of some texans that write untruths.

You write that glass tubes release mercury, especially after they are broken? So you sre saying that if unbroken that they still release mercury? Ha.

You say that anyone bending neon for lots of years HAS to suffer from merc poisoning? Ha. My dad, 54 years, Al Sklar about 60 years, myself at 40 years, Dean Blazek at about 40 years.....and many more old farts that have died......did not have, nor ever have, issues with merc poisoning. Tim Cummings whose business was epa testing of neon shops would totally destroy your bunk about us old timers and merc issues.

How bout explaining to all of us a bit of who you are, your background in the sign business and your experience with neon AND led, and from where you have received such wrong information that you have been stating as fact.

Whats your background in LED's? You probably know just as much as I know or less given its a relatively new technology (last decade or so) within the field of lighting & design.

Its a learning curve. We all go through it. I've got a minor in electrical if that counts for something. I know electricity takes the path of least resistance. I know its the amperage not voltage that kills you. Whats your highest level of education?

Could I bend a stick of neon right now? Not if my life depended on it.

Could I bend a stick of neon after learning under Brian at Neon of Dallas for a few months? You bet your ass I could. Been seriously thinking about doing it just for the hell of it. He said all I gotta do is buy him lunch when I got change to spare & he'll teach me the ropes of bending neon. He would walk circles around 95% of the people on this board I guarantee that the dude is that bad ass. He doesn't plaster vehicles & boats with signs like yourself all he specializes in is NEON & strictly neon.

Edited by ETX_LED_GUY

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Well I guess you answered my question.

Be careful of that neon guy though...he might be mad as a hatter.

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Well I guess you answered my question.

Be careful of that neon guy though...he might be mad as a hatter.

Again, he doesn't plaster cars & boats with vinyl decals like yourself when the sign business gets slow or lease out digital message boards. All he does is neon wholesale, repair, & maintenance all day everyday. I'm going to learn under him when I've got some free time on my hands & lunch money to spare, not some guy who designs decals on a computer most of the day & bends neon once in a blue moon when the customer wants his GF's "I :heart: Gary" written in bright pink letters to hang on her bedroom wall.

Edited by ETX_LED_GUY

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Dont flatter yourself thinking you know mw. I dont do vinyl, dont paint signs, and have never done a love Gary sign. However, did do wholesale neon for my career. Nothing special....just neon, lots of it. Walgreens across the country, boston markets everywhere, targets, small jobs. My hands did the work...it wasnt me watching guys work. Just me and lots of glsss. In between did tons of research on dpumps, msnifolds, trodes, and oumping processes, and lots of glass.

So stop trying to bait me.

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Dont flatter yourself thinking you know mw. I dont do vinyl, dont paint signs, and have never done a love Gary sign. However, did do wholesale neon for my career. Nothing special....just neon, lots of it. Walgreens across the country, boston markets everywhere, targets, small jobs. My hands did the work...it wasnt me watching guys work. Just me and lots of glsss. In between did tons of research on dpumps, msnifolds, trodes, and oumping processes, and lots of glass.

So stop trying to bait me.

Back when the unemployment rate up there in Illinois wasn't hovering above 9%?

Gotcha.

There is enough work here to last me a lifetime & then some if I wanted to do neon.

Edited by ETX_LED_GUY

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Wrong again. Back in phoenix, before doctors tried to kill me.

This discussion, for me, is over.

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This thread is over a year old. I'm just curious how the LED is holding up on The Drake.

The historic Magnolia Hotel here in Dallas can't keep their flying red Pegasus lit with neon even after an extensive overhaul & millions of dollars renovating it 15 years ago. Its a maintenance nightmare so they turned it off completely.

BEAUTIFUL sign, & arguably more historically relevant than The Drake in Chicago. It was built a year after The Drake, but stands over twice as tall at 29 stories. The Drake is only 13 stories tall.

The Magnolia Hotel was in its hey day the tallest building West of the Mississippi. Its iconic red horse could be seen from the ground over 30 miles away on a clear night.

Edited by ETX_LED_GUY

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I don't think the hotel is responsible for maintaining the Pegasus sign, that responsibility falls onto The Dallas Foundation and Dallas Adopt a Monument Fund.

Anyways, some LED proponents will say anything they can to kill off the remaining neon trade. Pretty bad when you can't sell your product based on facts and have to lower yourself to unfounded claims, be it the alleged LED advantages or the so-called hazards of neon.

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Matt this is an electric sign forum, no one here does decals, and most here are VERY informed about our trade and industry. Your friend Brain is a longtime member here as well and I would be curious to know if he shares your same thoughts about the electric sign trade let alone Neon.

Gary has too much character/integrity to debate or argue with you but he's probably one of the smartest, most intelligent people of this trade. He's worked for himself as well as for some of the biggest companies doing project management/planning. You're still afraid to identify yourself so like him, it's pretty pointless to even lay facts up against your brochure marketing points. Like all unidentified anonymous drive by posters, soon you won't be here because of that, but it's been entertaining none the less.

If it's not apparent I'm sure everyone reading already just assumes your a just some guy who came from one industry into this one selling LEDs, if not.....you sure seem like one, which isn't good for this trade.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Matt this is an electric sign forum, no one here does decals, and most here are VERY informed about our trade and industry. Your friend Brain is a longtime member here as well and I would be curious to know if he shares your same thoughts about the electric sign trade let alone Neon.

Gary has too much character/integrity to debate or argue with you but he's probably one of the smartest, most intelligent people of this trade. He's worked for himself as well as for some of the biggest companies doing project management/planning. You're still afraid to identify yourself so like him, it's pretty pointless to even lay facts up against your brochure marketing points. Like all unidentified anonymous drive by posters, soon you won't be here because of that, but it's been entertaining none the less.

If it's not apparent I'm sure everyone reading already just assumes your a just some guy who came from one industry to into this one selling LEDs, if not.....you sure seem like one, which isn't good for this trade.

Could have fooled me. Says it in his profile. I'm sure he's done electric signs as well. Not doubting that.

Long time member? Oh that's cool, but means nothing, really. I'm sure there are a lot of people that sign up here out of curiosity, find out its gimmicky at the core & never post or sign in again. Its just the way forums like this work.

You hardcore neon guys act like neon is the answer to everything when its not...neither is LED. Depends on the application, operating environment, etc. etc. Your neon, out in the real world, doesn't last in the frequent hail storms & vortex winds up on a 70 story building, much less at ground level. You neon guys can't change your entire theme at the swipe of a smart phone button. Technology is leaving you in the dust, bud. You either pony up or you fall by the wayside.

This board is obviously very click-ish & unwelcoming to new members, especially the LED guys you deem as "a threat to your industry".

I love neon & love seeing it used in certain applications, but again, its not the answer to every application, especially applications that call for different themes. Even Brian will tell you that. Call him up, here is his number in Dallas, Texas: 214-630-5045.

Getting back to my original question no one can seem to answer, what is the warranty on neon breakage or abrupt failure out in the field? 1 year, 6 months, 90 days? I honestly couldn't tell you as I don't know.

Will you re-pump for free if the gas leaks out due to a faulty seal or electrodes? How many fires have been started on buildings due to neon? I can Google some for you if you'd like, one just a month ago.

Questions like this are never answered on this board because its like venturing into the lions den with you neon guys. People are afraid to ask or say, I'm not. The only dumb question is the one never asked. You're no better than me & I'm no better than you. Like my grandfather used to say all the time..."you're just as good as the other SOB" & "let the other guy be the SOB not you". Worked for him all his life financially.

But hey, its a free forum & a free country, we can all agree to disagree right?

CIAO

Edited by ETX_LED_GUY

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Matt, I'm 24 years in the sign business in the D/FW -Texas market. I have neon, as well as every type of sign imaginable installed all over this great State. Never once have I, or one of my employers had a fire start from our sign. I have plenty of neon, even in Tyler that makes it through our weather. (Jalapeno Tree, Mercardo's, Posado's) to name a few.

I give a 5 year warranty on all of my products. Which includes labor. You and I briefly discussed this.

Honestly, you do need to spend some time with Brian. As well as other sign shops. You need to learn the industry, you're trying to sell to.

As far as LED being a superior product. You haven't been around long enough. To know the history of how shitty LED's were, and some still are.

Edited by alltex

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Well, we deal with facts and real numbers here and hate to waste time with rambling, marketing points, and people who have no idea what their talking about and have strange assumptions about this board being "clickish" because they don't agree with you and because everyone is telling you your assumptions and selling points aren't true.

Call him? Well that's silly and childish, you're the one who has a "real good" relationship with him and I'm sure he appreciates you throwing his name out here for all to see and associate with you. We're professionals here who build and maintain the largest sign programs in the nation.

You keep asking about warranty for Neon, what has your "friend" told you? Why not relay what you think / told what that is?

It's not that no one wants to answer, well yes that is but you brought it upon yourself.....no one wants to answer because it'll go in one ear and out the other and you'll take another off ramp from the freeway of knowledge and start somewhere else just like you've done all over this thread.

You can play and throw the victim mentality card out all you want but i doubt we have that many "hardcore" neon people here that are so pro neon they'll even lie to themselves, if that's the case...we'll their wrong too and and that's why we do the testing here. it's straightened out my own assumptions and LEDs are AWESOME!!! You obviously don't read much of what's here. I sell to the electric sign trade both Neon & LED components but I won't bullshit to customers facts about light sources just to pimp a sale, in my experience of building and installing signs I've used both Neon & LED . It all works in the right application and some better than others, it's not just about the environment, it's about what and who they have to work with about what a shop will use.

You need to seriously take a back seat, read and learn what is "Really" in our industry and understand that it goes way beyond the brochure rack or a sign supplier and way beyond the garbage that's in our trade magazines and what's pushed/endorsed/omitted by our trade associations.

Neon is not dying, it's growing back again slowly and it's probably more profitable than it ever has been and brings more lean profits to a shop who can fabricate/build and install Neon.

Free country yes, free forum to do what you want...no.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Hey Mark! Whats goin' on bud? Never heard back from you on the theme park deal so I figured you weren't interested any longer or just too swamped.

I never said LED's were superior, what I did say is each has their time & place. While neon may not be good for one application it may be good for another & vice versa.

I've personally witnessed LED's that have been up & burning for 15-20 years without interruption of service which brings me to ask you how many Honda Accords do you see from the early 90's with the red LED's still going strong on the rear spoiler. Those are 12 volts & out in the elements. As a certified mechanic I see it all the time. Never once have I had to replace an LED on a car, never.

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Well, we deal with facts and real numbers here and hate to waste time with rambling, marketing points, and people who have no idea what their talking about and have strange assumptions about this board being "clickish" because they don't agree with you and because everyone is telling you your assumptions and selling points aren't true.

Call him? Well that's silly and childish, you're the one who has a "real good" relationship with him and I'm sure he appreciates you throwing his name out here for all to see and associate with you. We're professionals here who build and maintain the largest sign programs in the nation.

You keep asking about warranty for Neon, what has your "friend" told you? Why not relay what you think / told what that is?

It's not that no one wants to answer, well yes that is but you brought it upon yourself.....no one wants to answer because it'll go in one ear and out the other and you'll take another off ramp from the freeway of knowledge and start somewhere else just like you've done all over this thread.

You can play and throw the victim mentality card out all you want but i doubt we have that many "hardcore" neon people here that are so pro neon they'll even lie to themselves, if that's the case...we'll their wrong too and and that's why we do the testing here. it's straightened out my own assumptions and LEDs are AWESOME!!! You obviously don't read much of what's here. I sell to the electric sign trade both Neon & LED components but I won't bullshit to customers facts about light sources just to pimp a sale, in my experience of building and installing signs I've used both Neon & LED . It all works in the right application and some better than others, it's not just about the environment, it's about what and who they have to work with about what a shop will use.

You need to seriously take a back seat, read and learn what is "Really" in our industry and understand that it goes way beyond the brochure rack or a sign supplier and way beyond the garbage that's in our trade magazines and what's pushed/endorsed/omitted by our trade associations.

Neon is not dying, it's growing back again slowly and it's probably more profitable than it ever has been and brings more lean profits to a shop who can fabricate/build and install Neon.

Free country yes, free forum to do what you want...no.

Never said we were "good friends". I did however talk to him over the phone several years ago & he said he'd show me how to bend neon for a little lunch money. Why not say his name? I thought you wanted this to be an "open forum"? Amazing how the tables can turn so quickly huh?

Thanks, you're just reiterating what I've been saying all along.

If its not the kind of responses you want to hear then I'll gladly leave or you can gladly ban me.

Again, I never discounted neon. In fact, I love it. So stop trying to twist my words & everything is gravy.

Capiche?

Edited by ETX_LED_GUY

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Matt there is a serious disconnect going on with you.

Then why are you in this thread taking tangents which is REAL application/topic specific, where Neon IS clearly the logical choice for savings and longevity? Everybody here already know the pros and cons of the light sources you don't need to beat that drum here on this board, like I said...we're all professionals here you're not mentioning anything new to sell us but at the same time you're regurgitating what is printed on the brochure rack of any sign supply house. Clearly LED's will not do a better job on this one whereas they can/will do on others. Drake will not make the ROI for at least 48+ years, it won't be as bright, the saving are 22% having a dimmer light output, it will degrade whereas the Neon won't, so?........

You're trying to force a square peg in a round hole, and anyone who is approached/contacted by ******** who is trying to peddle LEDs can easily read this thread upon a google search which is full of his own contradictions where he says LEDs are not superior....but yes they are....neon is old all in the same topi. Neon explodes and burns buildings down but yet wants to learn neon will know who they are dealing with, and how honest he is about what he sells and how honest he is with himself. I have some news for you Matt, anything will cause a fire when it's NOT installed/used right, Lights, Spa's, motors etc.

So know your a car mechanic gone LED sales rep, great! Just like our industry leadership who went from plastic/pool industry to sign industry.

You just need to stop and take a backseat because nothing you say is believable or credible at this point. Sorry you thought that this would be a slam dunk industry to walk in and sell too where LEDs can be sold to retrofit that "old, outdated" technology and LED LED LED is all go. Fact is, it's not.

Edited by Erik Cin
deleted name

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Matt there is a serious disconnect going on with you.

Then why are you in this thread taking tangents which is REAL application/topic specific, where Neon IS clearly the logical choice for savings and longevity? Everybody here already know the pros and cons of the light sources you don't need to beat that drum here on this board, like I said...we're all professionals here you're not mentioning anything new to sell us but at the same time you're regurgitating what is printed on the brochure rack of any sign supply house. Clearly LED's will not do a better job on this one whereas they can/will do on others. Drake will not make the ROI for at least 48+ years, it won't be as bright, the saving are 22% having a dimmer light output, it will degrade whereas the Neon won't, so?........

You're trying to force a square peg in a round hole, and anyone who is approached/contacted by ******** who is trying to peddle LEDs can easily read this thread upon a google search which is full of his own contradictions where he says LEDs are not superior....but yes they are....neon is old all in the same topi. Neon explodes and burns buildings down but yet wants to learn neon will know who they are dealing with, and how honest he is about what he sells and how honest he is with himself. I have some news for you Matt, anything will cause a fire when it's NOT installed/used right, Lights, Spa's, motors etc.

So know your a car mechanic gone LED sales rep, great! Just like our industry leadership who went from plastic/pool industry to sign industry.

You just need to stop and take a backseat because nothing you say is believable or credible at this point. Sorry you thought that this would be a slam dunk industry to walk in and sell too where LEDs can be sold to retrofit that "old, outdated" technology and LED LED LED is all go. Fact is, it's not.

Never tried to peddle anything. If someone asks, them I'll tell them whats out there & where they can source it.

If you want it, great, you'll find a way to get it, if you don't you won't. At the end of the day it doesn't bother me one bit.

Go ahead & say my name, just be sure you also tell these fine folks on the forum you thought a magnetic transformer was cost prohibitive for LED's, never saw it used it the field, & also didn't know an LED could be powered at AC current.

So you like calling people out? That's what this forum is about? Be sure & tell them what you didn't know about LED's.

Back to The Drake, this thread is over a year old. I'd like to know how that Sloan product is holding up being that this is a fair, informative place to share information on the WWW. If it were my building I would have left the neon alone, as I have also stated.

End of story.

Edited by Erik Cin
deleted name

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Wow really??? I don't know??? Stay tune when I return


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Hard to reply back when I'm on the road Matt

First off, of course I know that LEDs have magnetic power supplies, their used mostly/widely for landscape lighting. I never told you that over the phone when you called me in total dishonesty which we will get back to in a second. I told you yes that many many shops see them as cost prohibitive because of cost. I also told you that I SELL them, BUT... that I have YET to announce that here on this site, which was one of the things I was going to mention here.

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6795-big-changes-coming-to-the-sign-syndicate-a-new-age/

So thanks for that! I guess the cats out of the bag. But whatever for now, I can formalize later.

I also told you what they go $$$ wise along with the brand name "Justin LED"...who is the same company who also owns the Electronics that I have been selling "AxiomLED" power supplies.

The Magnetic Power Supply we sell, available in single to four channel

post-3-0-27094000-1406928852_thumb.jpg

Magnetic LED power supplies are AWESOME because they last so much longer than electronics and you can say the same about electronic Neon Power Supplies vs Magnetics, Fluorescnt electronics vs magnetics etc etc. You stated you apparently can pick one up for $25 to $45, or so. I thought that was odd, so far out for what we can sell them for but if you can fine.

About the dishonesty.

You called me acting/posing as a sign shop/designer/consultant who uses this great LED border component and you wanted to know if we could include them in our testing and that you don't sell them, you're just a user. I do this for a lot of shops I explained, they send me what they have and we pop them in, at our own charge. You did this to bypass doing it as the product you truly sell on our own dime.

The anonymous clause to joining this board does not work the way you think. Had you contacted an admin after registration to let us know you would have been told the does and don'ts. That is mainly for individuals who want to observe and not engage in the fashion you you have because of employment. Not so you can causally come on here, bullshit, defame and contradict yourself on every turn.

So, your posting ability ends for a while. Maybe you can start over later.

In the time being, I'll remove your name from the post I made because I don't want to in anyway keep anyone from making a living and putting food on the table. But that doesn't mean I have to allow it here either.

If you're going to be a doing sales or be self employed in any industry, you first need to develop/have character, and integrity. Or try real hard to put that first.

As for calling out? That's the purpose of The Sign Syndicate, and why this site is here, their is a BIG lack of it, a big lack of honor too. That's what we do, cut right through it.


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

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Here,Here Erik!

A good debate is just that, good, but bull and misinformation does nothing to promote anything. My little neon shop is gettting busier and busier. Neon will NEVER go away. NOTHING can do what neon does. period. Time will tell when that signs starts to show the signs of wear that the LED does, and then will they even be able to get replacements or just trash them and go with whatever is the newest thing now? Where if it was clear neon, just bring it to ANY neon guy and have it repumped or repaired. I love neon and know it isn't going away, hell it' sbeen here for over 100 years!

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Mathew, light up another one cause you sound like a moron who likes to get under peoples skin. LED's that stand up to 150 mph winds. Are those the ones in the car spoiler? Do you hear the stupid shit being typed by your fingers? You sound like the type that probably could bend a stick after a couple of months in your friends Neon School for Food Program. But you would have to keep bringing them food to teach you what to do with the bent stick afterwards. Most neon guys are switching to electronics...did that come to you in a dream, or were you lighting it up again.

I know you were lit up when the red neon was going dim in cold weather. Everyone can tell or smell that your talking out your ass.

I'm sure the art-form or craft of neon will never stand up to your 150mph LED imagination.

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Man, I missed a great debate that I would've loved gettin into.

Matt, Mad hatters is not from the vapor released, in the shop it is from the liquid mercury used on hats and absorbed directly into the skin. Mercury can be processed by the body in liquid form, its the direct vapor that will do damage. When a tube breaks the majority of mercury is not in the vapor, it is amalgamated into the phosphor. you are correct about it being released in the air by coal from china, travels 1.5 times around the earth and lands here. Acid rain that killed a majority of the lakes in upstate NY is from mass amounts of hg in the air from Detroit, chi town and Cleveland industry and the high concentration of vapor in the air causing it to drop faster

As far as fires, the neon does not start fires, its the installers and short cuts taken installing it. The tube temperature of a neon tube is around 100 degrees. It can not start a fire on an awning considering the material has to be fire rated and in Texas the temp gets a little warmer than that. If that was the case the metal holding the awning together would ignite.

I could go on but not worth it. Ya know I know someone like you that likes to stir up the pot with trying to read between the lines. I would learn a little more about the industry before spewing garbage out. I can promise you one thing, it will take longer than a few times in the fire and free lunches to be a glass bender, Maybe ur friend is just appeasing you to shut you up. any one can be an "LED" guy, it takes an artisan to be a real glass bender and a real sign guy.


GOOD things happen for a reason......

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      So what so unique about the Brighton?  For starters, we wanted it to be VERY efficient.  I don't know of another more bright and efficient LED module in it's class.  155 lum/W and 124lum with a 170˙ Batwing optic lens, most importantly when it comes the sign industry the important number is 63.09 Foot Candles on a sign face per Watt
       
      The important aspects of long lasting LEDs is of course finding the "sweet spot", where it's driven just perfect for light and power.  The Brighton is VERY under driven, less power, MORE light!  These can be spaced out pretty far due to the optics lens, it's brighter in angles than it is straight on, or up.  Under driving  improves thermal performance, which extends life all while getting higher Lumens per watt.  The Brighton LED is a High-End, High Performance LED module for High-End applications.
       
      For starters off the bat we will have a 2 Diode, (no need for a 3 Diode), 4 Diode, and our Sign Cabinet model 6 Diode (SunFire).  Shops won't need to stock multiple module types, the Brighton-2 is so versatile, you can use it for almost anything, just adjust the spacing.  It already comes with 7" inches of wire so jumping from one row to another is easy.  Space the center to center at 6" for good light, 5" center for Better Light, 4" for Best Light.  They're 1.7 mods/foot and work good for shallow 2" applications depending on face type to of course much deeper.
       
      Since these are driven so low, they don't generate a whole lot of heat, BUT, our Brighton-6 (2.8w) is Heatsinked on all Aluminum PCB for longer life.
       
      One of the biggest complaints we have received about LEDs when it comes to large projects like large letters or cabinets is......"We have to use so MANY Power Supplies!"
       
      A nice aspect about the Brighton is, it's a whole 24v system!  Everything!
       
      As sign companies we are redistricted by the Class II regulation of no larger than 5A per channel.  So 12v is restricted to 60watts, BUT....24v is restricted to 96watts.  24v will mean more modules per power supply.  You're now getting almost double the amount of modules for a project.
       
      24V cuts that amperage that runs across the wiring and module in half!  It reduces the resistance, reduces the heat and most importantly IMPROVES reliability.
       
      I think we can all agree that LESS is BETTER, less moving parts, the less you have to worry. 
       
      This is the first part of our Brighton Line, we'll continue to improve it widening the line and of course always always staying far ahead of the curve
       
       
      I'm including some rough test pics of our process and how they fair.  We should have these available in the first part of Fall.
       
      And yes, we will still stock, and continue to sell NC LED Reckless LED
       
       

       

      Early Try Out's, various wattage and diode mfg's
       

       
       
    • By burkeenterprise
      Well established sign company seeking a neon tube bender open to working throughout the sign trade. Our clients are accustomed to an extreme level of service and high quality products delivered in a timely manner by highly professional staff.
      Requires either tube bending experience or recent tube bending school attendance.
      General knowledge of the sign trade helpful
      Good customer relations
    • By toddh@formetco.com
      Sign Installers, LED Video Screen, Service & Installation Technicians (Duluth, GA)    Apply at Jobs@formetco.com
       
      Formetco is a 50-year-old Duluth, Georgia based company that manufactures products sold in four divisions: Billboard Hardware, Digital LED Billboards, LED Video Scoreboards and LED Video Screens. The LED Screen business is very dynamic and fast growing. For additional information about Formetco see: http://www.formetco.com/
       
      This is a full-time position. We are searching for a candidate that is seeking a challenging opportunity, motivated to take charge, learn, grow and desires to take on additional responsibilities. Formetco offers a comprehensive benefits package including 401K with match, health, dental, vision, long-term disability and life insurance, and paid time off in the year of hire. Formetco is a Drug-Free Work Place, and a pre-employment drug test is required.
       
      Sign Installer, LED Video Screen, Service & Installation Technicians – We are searching for candidates to service and install large LED Screens used at high profile locations across North America. We have multiple positions open, requiring a wide range of skills ranging from steel working, crane operation, data communications, high and low voltage wiring, computer operation and networking, along with a high level of customer interpersonal communications skills. This position requires technical knowledge and good troubleshooting skills. We operate in a time sensitive environment, supporting & installing large LED Videos screens.
      Experienced working with LED Electronic Signs, Scoreboards, LED Video Displays and/or experience working in the Billboard Industry is desired. Must be able to climb billboard structures, be comfortable working at heights of 100’ for extended time frames. Work can occur in a variety of weather conditions. Must have good driving record. CDL is a plus. Ability to manage and assist on-site contractors with the installation of large LED screens, from lifting and mounting, primary power installation, data communications, internet connections, sign commissioning and customer sign off. Can answer questions, manage projects, handle on site issues, communicate professionally with subcontractors, customers and manager. Must be organized, responsible person with the ability to analyze problems and communicate with manager and customers. Computer and Computer Network Knowledge Desirable. Understanding of electrical requirements for wiring general signage. Experienced with high/low voltage power distribution and data communications/networking. Good general mechanical skills and analyzing issues. Education or experience in Welding, Electrical and or Computers/Computer networking a plus. 7 Days a week operation. 50% Travel required with overnight travel and limited international travel. Have a valid passport or can obtain one. We realize that candidates will not have all the above skills. If you feel like this is something you would be interested in and have experience working at heights, climbing, overnight travel is acceptable, we encourage you to apply.
      All candidates must have full authorization to work in the US without requiring current or future sponsorship.
      Please list the job position you are applying for in your response. We have multiple job OPENINGS, so we need to know what position you are seeking.
      EOE
      Job Type: Full-time
       
      Below are examples of typical projects






    • By Erik Sine
      PK HOUSINGS
       
      PK, or Neon P-K Housings are harder and harder to find these days with no major Neon Manufacturer still producing the Metal Shroud portion of a PK Housing.  Westrim??  Nope....Transco?  Nope....Allanson?  Nope...
       
       In fact, it's been nearly impossible to find New complete PK Housings. 
       
      The only way in the last couple of years if you had a Neon Project for a client has been to find existing stock from a sign company that has had some just sitting on a old dusty shelf somewhere, or possibly a sign supplier who didn't even know they had any, and with LEDs flooding the market it's doubtful a supplier rep even knows what they are/were, and that dusty case they do have with all those strange metal & glass components was possibly spare parts for some old delivery truck their company use to have from the 90's???   
       
      Think of how many have just been straight thrown out in the garbage
       
      Well, not every Neon wall project calls for #200, #300 Housings, the difficult Masters Technologies Boots and Sleeving System.  If you want a Neon attached to on a wall for a clean look & without a raceway, YES...it IS still possible!!!
       
      We've been sitting on these for some time, sorry for the late public announcement
       
      Store Link of Neon Housings
      http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/store/category/8-neon-housing-components/
       
       
       
      Call or Email us for questions or orders!!  orders@thesignsyndicate   (858) 880-1400
       
       

    • By ScooterDoesIt
      Hello All,
       
      I am trying to replace an obsolete neon transformer on a bar light and cannot seem to find anyone who can confirm what modern transformer will work as the proper replacement. That's why I came here to the experts!
       
      I've attached a photo of the old indoor gas tube transformer.
      I believe it says it's an Actown Model No. FG 3851.
      PRIM 120 Volts 60 Hz 270VA
      SEC 9,000 Volts 30 MA
      Secondary Mid-Point Grounded
       
      I believe Actown was bought by Franceformer years ago.
       
      Can anyone offer any insight on what a solid replacement transformer for a bar neon would be?
       
      Any info. anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.
       
      Thanks!
       
       



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